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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
I listened again on my all tube/Spendor/REL S30 rig. Amazing how it now sounds so more like a recording in free space compared to my headphones.
Yes....I much prefer hearing the 'air', 'soundstage' and 'instrument locations' provided by speakers over headphones 🤩
I am convinced the Raven adds a golden warmth to the reproduction.
I've always stated that the Belt-Drive Raven projects a more relaxed and somewhat less analytical interpretation than the DD Victor....and that's not surprising.
"Golden warmth" sounds quite inviting....🤗

All the early recordings with the Palladian were done when it was mounted on the SAEC Arm on the Victor.
Dover then suggested it be moved to the Palladian as he felt it wasn't quite optimised on the WE-8000/ST....
We then did a comparison which concluded that the Palladian on the Raven was indeed better than on the Victor.
Here they are again.....

PALLADIAN ON VICTOR TT-101

PALLADIAN ON RAVEN

Whilst you have, admittedly...always expressed reservations about the Raven's abilities vis-a-vis the Victor......it has never stopped Frogman from choosing his 'favourite' LDR played on the Raven.
Nor has it hindered his appreciation for the Palladian when mounted on either table.

I appreciate your sensibilities and preferences are perhaps more 'acute' in certain respects than for me or Frogman....
And that's fine. As Frogman says..."Vive la difference!!"

What I find encouraging about your particular preferences, is that the humble 35 year-old MM Victor X-1II competes with a $10,000 LOMC cartridge.....and comes out on top 🎉
In some ways, I agree with you 🤯

Thanks for your contributions.
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
I’ve had many people contact me asking where they can find a VICTOR X-1II?
The bad news is........you probably can’t 😢
Even if you do.....it will probably have a damaged or missing stylus.
If you’re patient enough to wait 2-3 years....you might get lucky to see one advertised on Japan Yahoo with a good stylus (like I did).
Some more bad news......
You’ll have to outlay north of $1000+ to win it at auction.
Same goes for the VICTOR X-1 and X-1IIE 

I don’t understand why.....but Jico do not produce a SAS replacement styli for the X-1 variants.
They DO however produce SAS STYLI replacements for the VICTOR Z-1 model.
And the Z-1 Cartridges are way more plentiful and CHEAP 🎉
Find one without a stylus for $40....add a brand new Jico SAS for $250 and for less than $300, you will have a cartridge better than any modern current-production MM up to $1000 and beyond.

Let’s see what the listening panel thinks....🧐

VICTOR Z-1/SAS MM CARTRIDGE

VICTOR Z-1/SAS MM CARTRIDGE
sdrsdrsdr
196 posts
 
@halcro 

i see you started out with comparing the AT-ML180. Sorry I don’t know why I missed that. And the discussion discussed what I asked. Thanks.
Steve.
sdrsdrsdr
196 posts
 
Palladian on Raven on my end sounds better than Victor. But I would probably  give the tonearm the more credit here. More full bodied and smooth. What do you think? You know your tables sound characteristics. Do the tables using the same tonearms have different presentations that we would  notice on our end.
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Do the tables using the same tonearms have different presentations that we would  notice on our end.
Tough question Steve.....
The specific sound of each cartridge, tonearm and turntable is so intertwined as a combination, that I'm not prepared to try and apportion qualities to the individual components.
What I do know....is that some cartridges sound better on one arm than another and ALL cartridges sound differently with different headshells 🙃
Palladian on Raven on my end sounds better than Victor. But I would probably  give the tonearm the more credit here.
I think you're onto something here Steve.....
The Copperhead is just an amazing-sounding arm 🤩
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