Which is better for a DBA (Swarm); powered subs or unpowered?

This turned out to be one of the best swarm discussions thanks to the DBA detractors arguments and opinions

Cheeg, I'm not an expert on this matter just a learning user and by empirical evidence having experimented single and dual big not integrated subs before and a DBA of 4 smaller subs now I can tell you I prefer and advocate for the DBA big time.

By the way, although I respect the knowledge showed by the detractors of DBA and also respect (but not share) their opinions, their particular claim of "big bass" and "thump thump thump" and "appreciated by bass heads" IMO it is an insult to the DBA, one of the features of the DBA which I appreciate the most is that quite differently from single or dual non integrated subs the amount of bass you need is very very minimal per sub hence not "thump thump thump" at all. Sometimes you will hear the term "the subs disappear" in my case how I understand this "practically" is bass is "natural" like where u are going to an "acoustic" concert.

I use 2 SA1000 with 4 audiokinesis subs and gain on my amps (parallel connected) is at 50 percent on a 36 by 19 room

Oh one last thing if you are indeed a basshead one SA1000 with 2 (8ohm) subs in parallel will clip sometimes after 90 percent gain so using one sa1000 with 4 subs might be a challenging proposition

luisma31

... their particular claim of "big bass" and "thump thump thump" and "appreciated by bass heads" IMO it is an insult to the DBA, one of the features of the DBA which I appreciate the most is that quite differently from single or dual non integrated subs the amount of bass you need is very very minimal per sub hence not "thump thump thump" at all.

That sort of criticism of DBA is from those who haven’t heard it set up properly, or have not heard such a system at all. I agree that the one big advantage of DBA is the ability to create smooth, even, neutral bass. It is very appealing.

The price for that smooth, even, neutral bass is that your bass will be monophonic. That’s actually a small sacrifice to make because so much LF is recorded as mono anyway. The problem arises when DBA proponents insist that all bass is monophonic by virtue of it being non-directional. That widely-held belief - supported by claims in magazines such as Sound & Vision and Secrets of Home Theater - can easily be demonstrated to be wrong.

Still, mono bass can sound very, very good, and can lay a strong foundation for the rest of the music. I just prefer to have my LF in stereo, just like the rest of my system, and my speaker system is especially adept at achieving that.

@audiokinesis 

Duke,
Glad you joined! Would the ability to time-adjust each of the 4 subs improve sound? Like Toole described in his Sound Reproduction?

I've gone from 1 Rel to two sealed DIY 12" Rythmiks in a digitally active 4-way stereo system, where the subs play mono. I'm thinking of adding two more Rythmiks, which have a number of adjustments from the plate amp including phase. I was wondering if the addition of a box receiving the summed mono subs signal and adjusting time on each would further improve things vs "just" adjusting phase on each. 

Regards

After reading this post I had to join in . I will describe my sub bass system as I have implemented it I don't know if it is right or wrong but sounds great in my room . The room is a L shaped room in a Manhattan apt. the room is mostly concreate construction .12 ft wide by 18 long opening into a 12 x 12 entrance foyer . The system  is on the long wall for living arrangements . I am using 6 subs at present time . My sub bass system is controlled by a DSPeaker Antimode 2.0 for crossover , volume & room correction function . I run my subs in stereo . The two main subs are on Isoacoustics sub stands . The main speakers sit in top of the subs also on the same type stands all my speakers and subs are sealed . The main subs are REL Q201e that I converted to passive now being powered by a Crown XLS2502 amp . I run the fronts at a slightly higher volume then the other active subs in the room . I have the option of low or high level inputs to the DSPeaker and preferer the high level it sounds more cohesive . I can adjust the total sub volume , crossover & slope with a remote control .I have not done any measuring I just use my ears as I feel I am the only one to satisfy . RC 

While we’re awaiting a presumed response to lewinski01’s questions about 4-sub DBAs from The owner of Audio Kinesis, Duke Lejeune, I just wanted to add a quick comment:

I mostly agree with cleeds comments on his previous post. Based on the comments on this thread thus far from posters questioning the efficacy of 4-sub DBA systems, it is quite obvious that these individuals have never experienced the extremely high quality bass response performance this concept provides in practice in typical home rooms.
There is no smearing, booming or localization. If you can perceive the bass as originating from one of the subs, the system has not been setup properly or the crossover frequency control is set too high-usually above 80 Hz. What you will perceive is powerful bass down to 20 Hz, realistic and natural bass dynamics. The bass will be detailed, accurate in tone and timber and integrate seamlessly with your main speakers regardless of their brand and type.
Even though all 4 subs are run in mono, the bass will still be perceived as stereo. I can explain in detail how this is possible on a future post if anyone would like to know. Individuals have the choice of either buying a complete 4-sub DBA system kit or creating their own custom 4-sub DBA system utilizing their choice of subs. Parametric equalization, room treatments, DSP and auto room correction hardware and software are definitely not required but can be used optionally if preferred.
I’ve been using my AK Debra 4-sub DBA in my system for more than 5 years now for both stereo music and 5.1 surround for HT. I honestly can’t think of how this excellent bass system solution could be improved except with even higher quality, and much more expensive, subs being used.      From my perspective, the only other criticism of a 4-sub DBA I consider valid is that you do need to have, or make, the space for 4 subs in one’s room. I had no trouble accommodating the 4 relatively small, 12”x14.5”x28”and 40#, AK Debra subs in my 21’x14’ room but I realize others may have difficulty.      However,Duke has stated that only 1 of the 4 subs needs to be positioned on the room’s floor, the other 3 subs can be wall mounted on shelves even within a few inches of the ceiling. I know another Audiogon member, named Hans, just successfully and recently installed an AK Swarm DBA in his small office using this method.

Tim