Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?


In thinking about subwoofers to get for a large future listening space (30' x 30'). So far there seems to be a lot of great options for smaller subs for music.. such as the rel s812. Now my main focus will be music but I do plan to do some home theater on the system and I do enjoy subs that reach low and have strong but clear sub-bass. Would a large sealed sub still be able to provide clean tight bass that digs low and thus satisfy both duties. Can it ever match the speed and precision of a pair or more of rel 812s? Something like PSA S7201 or Captivator RS2?

A realize a smaller sub has a smaller moving mass and thus for a given level of power would be faster than a bigger sub with a bigger moving mass (driver mass). But a large sub would have to move less to achieve the same SPL and would reach lower.

Anyhow what do you guys think? Thanks.
smodtactical
Hello phusis,

     Despite our differences of opinion on certain specific audio subjects we’ve previously had, overall it seems to me that our system perspectives, preferences, goals and journeys may be more similar than different.
      I believe the metaphor of an audio journey we all take is very descriptive and accurate.  We all begin at a certain point, with a system that reflects our lack of knowledge, experience and $ at that specific point in time.  Looking at our systems at today’s specific point in time, our current systems almost certainly are very different than our initial systems.  However, our current systems still generally reflect our current, or recent, levels of accumulated knowledge, experience and $, just as our initial audio systems did.
     How did we get from there to here?
     I believe it’s exactly the result of what you stated:
”Well, I guess when I see something that catches my interest on this exciting journey of ours, and that speaks to the accumulated and randomly selected bits and pieces of info that enters one’s mind (and one deems important, for whatever reason), I go for it- no matter the consensus or gist among audiophiles.”
     Well, what do you know?, we’ve both been following very similar paths on our audio journeys, following our own personal levels of accumulated knowledge, experience, preferences and goals.  But we both wound up having unique but very different systems?  Excellent, that’s exactly how our audio journeys are meant to evolve, with no two being identical but all reflecting our personal preferences     I would describe my overall system goal is the sound qualities you’d experience listening to live blues, jazz or rock music at a smaller venue with good acoustics.  I enjoy the experience of hearing music played live and in person, especially the full range sound from deepest bass to highest treble, the power of bass notes that can be felt as well as heard and the powerful dynamics of musical instruments and human voices when heard live in person.
     I’ve found that the lack of powerful, seemingly effortless and unlimited bass and bass dynamics are the best indicator that you’re listening to reproduced music from a recording rather than actual live music.  The power and dynamics of higher pitched instruments and voices are, of course, also important in conveying  the perception that you’re listening to live music.  It’s just that using my Magnepan 3.7i main speakers, I’v found it relatively easy to get the mid and treble frequencies sounding tonally accurate, with live sounding impact, dynamics and holographic imaging. 
     I’ve found getting the bass sounding right, however, is much more difficult in most rooms than getting the rest of the audible spectrum sounding right.  I understand the valid reasons for this reality but won’t digress to describe them in detail right now.
     Fortunately, The AK Debra 4-sub DBA system has proven to be an excellent complement to the 3.7i speakers in my system.  My main speakers reproduce bass in a very similar manner to how they reproduce the rest of the audio spectrum, fast, smooth, detailed and coherently, but they only have a rated bass extension of 35 Hz.  I run them full range and run the 4 subs in mono mode with a crossover frequency of 40 Hz.  This extends my system’s bass down to 20 Hz and the speed, smoothness and detail of the bass results in a seamless overall sound integration with the 3.7l main speakers.  
     This all has resulted in my being very satisfied with my current system.  I’ve really been enjoying the perception of the musicians performing live in my room or being present at the venue at a live performance. depending on the recording played.
      Thank you for your kind invitation for a demo of your horn system if I’m ever near your home in Scandinavia.  I’d love to do so but, unfortunately, I don’t get up near your neighborhood too often.  Of course, if you ever find yourself in the American Midwest near Indiana, you’re always welcome to drop my my place for a demo, too.

Best wishes,
      Tim
I haven’t heard all the DBA/Swarm setup, But I do know the best bass systems I’ve heard were Columns. This may sound like a 70-80s design but still the most accurate and detailed system was again Bass columns. Whether infinite baffle, sealed accelerometer servo system, multi driver and size, passive radiator tuning, OB servo system with step baffle amps. ALL were a column style.

I’ve heard a few swarm systems NOW over the last year or so...

Good yes, great NO

But columns at this point in time for me is still KING, and have been for 20+ years.

A pair of 4-8 drivers per side is a good place to start. They actually take up less floor space, but cover FAR more ground evenly, in any application, including HT. I’ve heard as many as 4 in a system.
perfection... One still works better than most pairs of lowriders,
The Taller, The Better,

I know omnidirectional, NOT above 80, most pure BASS columns are 80-150 or <. Above 70-80 hz they get pretty directional. and very stereoish..(is that a word?)

Ay but what do I know, I made one out of an underground concrete vault, I got off a job site. a shop sub... 20 cubic foot interior, yea I know how to make BASS, really I do.. 2 18 inch PA 104s. City block of bass with that thing.

Regards
Maybe thats why the main guy at Rel keeps talking about the 'vertical component to bass'. Maybe thats why people love rel 6 packs.
Maybe that's why the Tekton subs work so well. DBA stands for distributed bass array. DBA says nothing about what or where, only that the bass is distributed among many drivers in different locations. One of the early papers even discusses four subs stacked on atop the other. Two Tekton subs is 8 woofers is more than my 5 is totally a DBA. Someone saying a BDA is not that great compared to Columns, when two columns is a DBA, is only showing they don't quite get the concept of a DBA.

More is always better. Been saying that about a hundred times now.
One still works better than most pairs of lowriders,
The Taller, The Better,

Good yes, great NO

Someone saying a BDA is not that great compared to Columns,

millercarbon, what was said is, "most pairs of lowriders", (24" or shorter).
good yes, great no... A little different "than not that great"

Bass columns, not sub columns, apples, oranges, (I’m trying to shorten the response honest) I should have explained my setups clearer.

I have a pair of 300 lb mid riders 12 cf boxes 65" tall. They work better than most lowriders. But the are not subs, They are Bass columns. SAT
(Stack and Test), There are a couple more setups here with multi MB, and taller cabinets.

Most of the systems I’ve heard over the last year or so, use multi lowriders, normally used as subs, 60-100 and below. Omnidirectional.
Bass columns are NOT. Bass columns are Very directional Up to 250 hz and down, usually 80-150 <

I've see, subs stacked also, they sound better to me, too.

I think I understand how most are using DBA/Swarm. I like ALL the bass in a its own structure. Something I learned from Mr. Bass Brian C. He used 3 columns, powered br Dayton SA1000s, 20 years ago.
lowers distortion, a lot...Especially on Sub/Bass/Mid Bass couplers using phase plugs. 20% distortion in the bass region is very common (non servo), not in my system, closer to 5%. Very little vibration issues with my planars monitors, again lowering distortion. with narrower baffles. and separate cabinets.

Regards