2. misc-audio
  3. 156300-101338

Tweaks - An Honest Discussion

I know there is a lot of talk about performance tweaks in this forum and the value that can be realized.  I've started this thread because it seems that folks tend towards believing they are either the silver bullet to sonic bliss or conversely simply snake oil.  I believe tweaks are somewhere in between and in most cases, worth about what you pay for (crazy  I know).

I'm open minded to tweaks and have employed many in my system over the years including isolation, fuses, footers, HFTs, cabling, cable risers and attempts at reducing RFI (among others).  While I believe that many of these tweaks incrementally helped me get better performance out of my system I never for a second found any tweak make a transformational difference the way that a significantly upgraded piece of gear brings to the table.  I think many of us have been quite happy with our systems over the years but that doesn't mean implementing a tweak can possibly compete with the benefit of replacing a piece of gear that is well matched to elevate your system. Just because you're happy with your setup doesn't mean a major gear change can't really elevate the experience - surely well beyond any form of tweakery.  

As an example, I've been very happy with a Hana ML cart and how it's performed in my system.  I recently decided to acquire a Lyra Kleos cart - for a $2K increase the change has been transformational in terms of dynamic range and ability to convey detail and imaging.  There has never been a dot I've placed on a wall, carbon platform placed under gear, or RFI shielding device I've ever used that could possibly come close to this equipment upgrade.  Same goes for upgrades to my system over the years in terms of amps, pre's, and speakers.  For anyone to suggest that through tweaks alone you can elevate your system to a level that only gear changes can achieve simply falls flat in my experience.  Some may be shocked to hear that most of the time a $200 tweak truly only gets you about $200 worth of improvement (if any) and not the equivalent of a $5000 gear upgrade. I know there is a certain allure that by simply being smart and applying elbow grease that we can extend the sonic limits of our system well beyond it's design, parts, and capabilities but that's just not true IMO.

What's your experience been?   
128x128three_easy_payments
Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
5,960 posts
 
reven6e

The snake oils are not meant to replace a component upgrade but to complement a keeper ... I am now playing with Stillpoint racks, power cables, network switches and other snake oils not to "upgrade" or "improve" my sound but to OPTIMISE my system, to allow it to perform at its best, unhindered by a number of known issues ... all of the above make a difference.
I think the phrase "snake oil" is overused in this forum and here's a fine example. By definition, if a product fulfills its promise and makes a genuine difference, then it isn't snake oil.
three_easy_payments's avatar
three_easy_payments OP
2,097 posts
 
@reven6e  

But once everything is in place and the big job is done, I see no harm in trying lifting cables, controlling vibration, trialing different cables and any other number of "tweaks".

Completely agree with this and it has been my approach.  The tweaks get me the last bit of goodness allowing well designed gear to work its best.  Through experimentation I've noted benefits from raising speaker cables off the floor (haven't found a benefit on power cords though).  I have adjusted speakers, added footers, added cones under most components, added HFTs to improve imaging a bit....etc.

But at the end of the day NONE of these tweaks ever were transformational enough to claim any one was the equivalent of a multi-thousand dollar component upgrade.  Not even close....tweaks are rewarding, allowing you to be hands on and get even more engaged in the hobby, train your ability to hear subtle differences, better understand what sonic qualities are most important to you, etc...but let's not pretend we have a choice on either spending $5K for component upgrade or putting some tape on a tonearm or putting some cones under your DAC and realizing the same benefit.    

reven6e
44 posts
 
I experimented with Stillpoints in the past. I liked them under my DAC but I hated them under a Devialet Premier.

Melco S100. Not going to start an argument. I know ethernet switches are a snake oil, a con, bits are bits and idiots are idiots. But it has an obvious effect on a streamer (and dCS at that). I heard several people complaining that it sounded too "soft", that it had a "sugarcoating" effect on their system, robbing it of some impact, of some drama. I like mine.

Some swear by conditioners, others by regenerators. And then there are plenty who say: best conditioning is a dedicated ring.  

And so on. One man's Nirvana is another man's disappointment and wasted money. I will continue to call all of the above snake oils not to take sides but because, as per my original post, I think most of these products are system dependant. There is no one size fits all and there is no guarantee that they will work FOR YOU.

The main components are generally a certainty. Double the amount you have spent on your DAC and anybody can hear the improvement (hopefully). Upgrade from a slim class AB or D integrated to class A mono blocks and everybody and their dog will notice the difference.  

But an AQ Nirvana? A Melco S100? Tornado vs Hurricane?
Isoacoustic vs Track Audio vs Townshend vs anything else you can think of under your speakers? Unknown quantity. Hic sunt leones. Your very personal adventure.   
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,102 posts
 
S.Q. increase in the 3 main embeddings with a relatively optimal tweaking in place in my own audio system :

20% mechanical(resonance-vibrations)

30% electrical grid

50% acoustical field of the room


Remember that this % is only an indication and can be qualitatively misleading...

For example vibrations resonance problems are less impactful than the acoustical non treated field in a comparative S.Q. scale evaluation...But in a treated acoustical field, an audio system with a non adressed mechanical problem will be less tone acurate with a more blurry imaging, and there will be a spectacular increase in S.Q. when the right tweaking will be implemented to address it...

Then all methods or tweaks are important, and these % ratios are only an indication of the relative importance of the 3 dimensional embeddings TOGETHER ( or 4 if we distinguish the passive way to treat room and the active way via S.G. or various active resonators or Helmholtz bottles etc )


Fine tuning an audio system implicate a systematic overview of these embeddings and of their mutual complementary interactions and feed back in the S.Q. audible effects "measured" by the learning and experimenting brain-ears...It is fun, cost me low cash, and I bought almost nothing except USB cheap S.G. (10 bucks each), all other materials is cheap and homemade except stones and crystals bought in China at low price...


Today with what I have learned, my audio system will cost : Amplifier, Dac, speakers, + all materials for treating the embeddings around 1000 dollars...


To upgrade with a significatively better one will cost me around $16,000 + all my controls methods for the embeddings which is the most important thing... I think that this upgrading is not necessary now because my actual system being very good as it is....Then when I read that someone has bought only a dac around 16,000 bucks, today I can smile without any frustration or enviousness, only the curiosity to listen to it if possible with a grain of skeptic salt about the Price / S.Q.  ratio.... :)


mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,102 posts
 
There exist only 3 possible sources of joy in audiophile hearts:

1-Buying the most expansive and at the same times best pieces of electronic components there is for your audio system...With no systematic controls means of the 4 embeddings because they dont feel the necessity after having bought the best products... 



2-Creating yourself the best possible at a ridiculous price....

3- Buying the best because they can afford it and knowing how to embed it in the optimal way... ( the rarest among these crowds)


I dont have money but I am creative and my only possible source of joy is 2...


Navigating audio forums gives me the idea that most are in the 4th rung...


4- buying relatively hyped for the mass products and using them with almost no embeddings controls means... Being frustrated at the end and after one year upgrading in a cycle raging urgency to live Hi-Fi experience without having any ideas how to makes it happen....

More to discover