2. speakers
  3. 156457-143457

My Demo results: I feel like I'm at a frustrating block in my speaker journey

Hi all,

New poster and longtime lurker. 

As the title says, I feel like I'm at a frustrating endpoint in my audio quest, and hoping to draw from your guys' experience for some direction.

I bought my first speaker system a couple years ago because at my old house my tv speakers were not cutting it. 

First I bought an old budget pair of Klipsche bookshelves (P15s?  I dont really remember)  They were really shrill, and I sold them fairly quickly. 

After reading a bunch of the mainstream audio review sites (I now understand these platforms are often pay to play) I purchased the ELAC Unifi UF5 Towers.  These had beautiful, lush musical bass but sounded about engaging as energetic as a sponge.  They also had kind of a dark muffled sound at times- like there is a wet blanket over them.   Paradoxically, they also sound inorganic and kind of metallic. 

In the past few months I decided to start demoing speakers to see what I like.  Ive found some speakers that do certain things right, but not everything right.  Every one of the high-end, expensive speakers I have tried have had certain large flaws. I've been kind of shocked at this whole experience, because to my ears my $60 set of logitec computer speakers handily beats a number of speakers 50x more expensive. Like, they dont have great detail retrieval or clarity but at least they dont color the sound a ton, and they present very engagingly.

Im still lookijng for my goldilocks speaker.

  • Various Kefs- very similar to the ELACs but worse imo- very metallic and unengaging
  • Various B&W- Metallic, boring, no dynamics
  • Warfedale Evo 4.4- nice highs!  Absolutely sloppy bass (for my room at least) and terribly muddy mids
  • Tannoy Revolution 6XTE- Similar to above.  Very, very dark speakers.
  • Martin Logan 35XTI bookshelves-  Eureka!  These are much more organic and clear.  Guitars actually sound like guitars instead of a bad digital rendering of them.  Theres energy in what I listen to.  This is what I was missing in the others... things sound like theyre supposed to!   Only issue is they arent as full-bodied as towers.  They just cant play very loud and I wish they had more bass to be better full range speakers.    Somewhat more minor issue is that they sound slightly grainy.  Though thats not a total dealbreaker. 
  • Martin Logan 60XTI Towers- I had high hopes for these.... but where did the magic for the 35s go ML?  These are very "meh".  The highs and satisfying acoustic resonances are gone.
  • Focal Aria 906 bookshelves- holy clarity batman!  But it sounds almost too clinical to the point that theyre not engaging.
  • Focal Aria 948 Towers-  Holy clarity and body batman!  These sound almost perfect- but they dont quite come alive until higher volumes (and I have a small space), and there's still something missing... a certain *zing* in the acoustic guitar resonances. 
  • Def Tech 9060- Hard to describe.  Sometimes they sounded good, sometimes they sounded imprecise and like the drivers were way too small.  Bass gets bloaty in my room.  Theyre also ugly as hell. 
  • Ascend Sierra Tower with RAAL-  After all the others, I had only tthe ML 35XTIs and the focal 948s remaining.  I was hoping, based on my extensive reading of forums, that the ascend towers could give the best of both worlds- the clarity/full body of the focals with the acoustic resonance/energy/zing of the MLs.  Unfortunately I was once again disappointed.  They seem unbalanced to my ears.  Like, they have very punchy bass but they color the sound to be sweet and there seems to be something missing in the middle of the sound.... some body that just isnt there.  The highs are very sweet and engaging, but almost a little artificially so.  Where the MLs sound like an actual acoustic guitar being played in front of me, the Sierras make it sound unnaturally sweet or high.  Theres unnaturally sweet zzzing out of string instruments that I dont think actually sound that way....  Im bummed because I really wanted to like these speakers. 


I think I've established a list of qualities Im looking for:
  • The etched sound of the MLs
  • Full body and clarity of the Focals
  • The forward, engaging nature of the ascends
  • Not overly smooth
  • Not metallic (I dont think I like aluminum tweeters)
  • wide horizontal dispersion (my room is wider than it is long)

Where do I go from here?  Im at a loss.  Id appreciate any recommendations you guys have. 

mjt8
steve59's avatar
steve59
1,672 posts
 
you're going to get a different suggestion from everybody. 

The deal with hifi is synergy and finding components that play well together and compliment your room acoustics. A lot of major brands have complex xovers that suck the juice out of the average ht receiver and that in itself can ruin a demo of speakers that could sound great with a different amp. A lot of companies are offering powered speakers that will take the guesswork out of component selecting for example the kef lsx and an affordable sub could be a solution for you and if you like the idea there's a $hit ton of brands offering the powered approach.
djones51
4,947 posts
 
Having the sofa in front of the speaker I think you would get better results using bookshelf and sub. If You can afford it powered speakers are good advice as well. 
bigwave1's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
bigwave1
224 posts
 
Listen to Open baffle designs before taking the next plunge. For nothing else, an education. 
1pieceatatime's avatar
1pieceatatime
3 posts
 
Full disclosure: This is my first response to a question. I have been on a similar voyage that has led me to a 'field' of options that seems to grow, instead of narrow my choices. 

I decided to go with Klipsch Cornwall IV's, as I heard a pair of III's that sounded amazing and checked a lot of the 'boxes' that you have mentioned.

My current situation is to identify the right amplifier combination,  another journey to no end.

Two speakers I have found to be interesting are the Salk speaker line up the Song3 BEAT (bookshelf version) are worth the research time to see if they are what you nay be looking for. Call Jim, he's a great guy, and willing to help guide you in your journey. Jim will tweak/custom build to your specification a d liking.

The other speaker I'd look at are the Liberty X-VOX (i believe they are a sister company to PBN audio, another amazing speaker lineup).

I wish you the best in your continued search, and will be interested in seeing what you decide on and of course the 'Sound Report'!

Cheers!

indyvw
43 posts
 

First of all, it’s a miracle that anyone is able to gain any meaningful advice from posts like these, with so many different opinions being offered that ultimately steer you in a hundred directions at once. A lot of people don’t pay attention to what question is actually being asked by the OP or they offer ridiculous solutions that will almost certainly not be implemented for a multitude of reasons. You’ve had several of these posts already in this thread but it is a systemic problem throughout the forum for sure. It’s just a consequence of having an open forum where everyone can offer an opinion regardless of its relevancy. That being said, I think several people have made some good suggestions for you.


I personally own the ML 35XTi speakers and they were paired with a Marantz 5011 AVR when I first started out a few years ago, so very similar to your setup. I thought the MLs (bi-amped) sounded great with the Marantz, especially for around $2k total investment. I also used the system for 2.1 home theater and it saw a lot of movie time so the AVR worked out well as it offered built-in room EQ and easy hook up for everything.  It sounds like you might be at the point where you’d like to take your listening experience to the next level though (just as I did), and if so I would suggest looking into two things: the placement (room layout) and the amp.  I think people are correct in mentioning the room layout is less than ideal but this happens when you have a system in a general use family space and not a dedicated room. It is what it is. So you just have to find solutions. Rather than say something silly like “you need to get those speakers out 3 feet from the wall” I would simply suggest that if you are able to rearrange the room at all in order to free up some space between the left speaker and the chair it would certainly help.  It doesn’t have to mean completely switching the seating locations. It could just involve moving the stand and speakers to the right a bit. If the TV has a fully articulating mount this may be an option. That’s assuming you have space to move to the right. If not that’s fine. At that point I think it would be wise to only consider bookshelf speakers you could raise high enough on stands to clear the chair arm so you don’t block the output from that left speaker. I also like the idea of wall mounted or even in-wall speakers. Given the room challenges I think an on-wall or in-wall could be a great solution. It all depends on whether you can modify the room layout or not and whether you want to mount something in or on the walls. Room treatment may be able to help as well given how close the left wall is to the speaker and it being a pretty reflective environment but this being a living room I’m sure you don’t want to add a bunch of wall treatments. You could look into an area rug perhaps if that’s something you and your wife wouldn’t mind. Maybe even a picture or two on the left to help a little with reflection. Nothing glass obviously but more like a thicker canvas print. The art panels are great from companies like GIK but it depends on how much you want to spend. You could even do curtains on the left window if that’s something you wouldn’t mind. 


As for amplification, I think you could find a number of solutions for a modest sum that would offer improvement.  The Parasound suggestions are good but that would also eat up a lot of your budget unless you find a great deal on a used one. If you were only focused on buying a new integrated with a $3k budget then sure. But if you’d like to stay at $3k total for any new purchases there are several integrateds that could work well. The Cambridge Audio CXA81, Yamaha A-S801, Musical Fidelity M3si or M5si, Peachtree Nova 150 or 300, NAD C 368 or 388, Marantz PM7000N all have good build quality, built-in DACs, respectable power, get great reviews and most importantly they don’t suffer from the AVR design limitations.  Without having to worry about 5-11+ amplifier channels, a ton of video and audio connectivity options, bass management, etc. the integrated amps are able to focus more on sound quality. It really all depends on how you use the system and how much connectivity you need.  If you just need 2 channels of amplification and a DAC and maybe 2-3 sets of RCAs at most then the integrated amp could be a great fit and one that will probably take your listening enjoyment to the next level up.  Most of these are under $1500 new so that also leaves money for speakers. The 35XTi is currently on sale for $400 each, which is a steal. I know ML makes a wall mount model in the same series too that you could consider. I’m sure other people could make suggestions for reasonably priced on-wall or in-wall options too. However, if you don’t want to mount anything on the walls or cut the walls to install in-wall models then the ML 35XTi or even the Focal Aria 906 might be what you’re looking for. I think trying to do what you can with the room or at least with speaker placement will help a lot and combining it with a more purpose built integrated amp will be even better.  I don’t think you’d be unhappy with either speaker option at that point. Good luck with your journey.


More to discover