Why do you guys pursue a flat frequency response when you buy a subwoofer?


As we all know, most audiophiles spend a fortune for that flat frequency response displayed on the manufacturer's specs when you buy a subwoofer. Why do you do this? The minute you put that flat sub in your room and take some measurements, it is anything but flat (it's a rollercoaster with all kinds of peaks/nulls etc, EQ to the rescue).....So, why do you dudes continue to look for the flat line? What's going on in your mind when you're shopping around?
deep_333
@audiokinesis , Many hardcore audiophiles i know stick with 2 channel music systems, a.k.a, their high end turntables, DACs, integrated amps/monoblocks, etc with no bass management. These guys try subs and abandon them because they can't get it to integrate right. Many of them buy RELs because it is "supposed to" integrate better (tribal hearsay). But, when they realize that the RELs were hype but lame on delivery, they abandoned them as well.  I sure would not want to add another adc/dac into the chain with a subpar DAC on something like miniDSP for bass management (when i have a Denafrips DAC in my 2 channel setup). Guys i know have waaaay more expensive speakers, DACs, monoblocks, etc on their 2 channel music setups than i do. They are probably not gonna do that either. It's almost like there's a huge disconnect here.

But, of course, once you taste the ecstasy of a well-integrated sub, it's really hard to go back to music without one.  I often find myself listening more in my room1 with active bass management (on my Yam A3080 receiver with the Jungson Class A preouts) than in my 2.2 room2 setup. There may be room for improvement or i may never get there with the tools I have in hand for room2. 

This might be a gross assumption. But, i think some of these 2 channel guys have waaay more cash to throw at a sub manufacturer than the average guy buying a sub for his hometheater. So, It may be a loaded market chunk which is out there i.e., if a manufacturer chooses to tap into it and cater to their systems better (monopoly for sure). More DOFs or.... whatever the R&D/solution may be to better integrate them...you would know better. 

Further clarification:

Rythmik Audio sells both the F12 and F12G as fully assembled subs.

GR Research sells the F12G sub---as they do all their products---as a DIY/Kit only, which includes a Rythmik Audio plate amp and Danny's paper-cone version of the 12" woofer. You either make or have made a 1.5-2.0 cu.ft enclosure, or buy one of the nice subwoofer flat packs Parts Express sells.

I understand, I still have my original M&K Volkswoofer and Satellites. They still play in my office. I had the Volkswoofer amplifier and driver surrounds renewed last
year. They sound as good as I first remember them and bought in 1983.
I will say though, they don’t shine a light on my primary system.
Deep_333 wrote: "Many hardcore audiophiles i know stick with 2 channel music systems, a.k.a, their high end turntables, DACs, integrated amps/monoblocks, etc with no bass management. These guys try subs and abandon them because they can’t get it to integrate right."

Very interesting. To the best of my knowledge I have yet to have a subwoofer system customer fail to get satisfactory integration with his mains. In most cases they run their mains fullrange and then blend the subs in. Therefore I must give credit to the off-the-shelf Dayton Audio amplifier I use, and to whoever designed it:

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sa1000-subwoofer-amplifier-rack-mountable--300-811

Deep: "I sure would not want to add another adc/dac into the chain with a subpar DAC on something like miniDSP for bass management (when i have a Denafrips DAC in my 2 channel setup). Guys i know have waaaay more expensive speakers, DACs, monoblocks, etc on their 2 channel music setups than i do. They are probably not gonna do that either. "

You bring up an excellent point: How do we roll off the bottom end of the mains without any undesirable side effects? Not sure there is a totally transparent solution.

Therefore when I design main speakers with subwoofers in mind, my mains do not need a protective highpass filter unless extremely high SPLs are desired. Their inherent bottom-end rolloffs are intended to blend well with the variable 4th order lowpass filter of that Dayton amp.

Deep: "It may be a loaded market chunk which is out there i.e., if a manufacturer chooses to tap into it and cater to their systems better (monopoly for sure). More DOFs or.... whatever the R&D/solution may be to better integrate them..."

I hadn’t really thought about it in terms of degrees of freedom until this thread. I think there may well be a correlation between (useful) degrees of freedom and good integration with the mains. Lacking the financial resources to develop my own subwoofer amplifier, I count myself lucky Dayton makes an amp with a parametric EQ and a fully adjustable phase control.  My individual passive subs have some adjustability as well.

Duke
Charlie!
 Dude, your gonna make the list now.

Terra Mar? 4-6 foot South Westerly a few years ago. Nice left
Sad loss here yesterday. 

M