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Build or buy, speaker options

I have a pair of Triangle Volante 260 speakers which I love dearly most of the time. The times that don’t love them dearly are the Fridays when I get home from work and want to shed the stress of the week with a little high energy wall of sound type tunes. As mentioned before in this forum, the midrange and high end quickly fade out after a short while at high volume, then fade back in when I turn the volume down. Georgehifi posited that it could be iron core inductors in the crossovers getting saturated, and that sounded feasible. But, in an email conversation with Madisound, their tech indicated that he’d never experienced such a behavior, and that saturated inductors were more likely to exhibit distortion. The tech ask for some photos of the crossover, but I wasn’t able to get a clear shot of one of them, and trying to remove one from the cabinet proved much more involved than I thought it would. No good photos, but I did see iron core inductors, for sure. The Madisound tech thought “Maybe they are using poly switches that close when the power is too high, putting the speakers through a resistor”.  This is something I’ve never heard of, so I’m totally unfamiliar with poly switches or what they might look like.  It’s looking like I may not be able to solve this problem. 

The options I’m considering are selling the Triangles, and purchasing used market speakers, or building my dream speakers.  

If purchasing used, the qualities I like in a speaker are: detail, frequency balanced but leaning slightly toward warmth, tight punchy bass with authority, and higher frequencies that are truthful and never screeching. They would also need to handle a fair amount of SPL without strain. Amplifiers are Parasound JC 1’s.

If making my own, I’d be shooting for the same qualities. With that in mind, I’m considering a sealed cabinet design for two 8” woofers.  Separate cabinets for midrange and tweeters, also sealed. I think I’ve decided on the drivers for the bass cabinets, the Morel CAW938 9" Woofer, which is an excellent driver for sealed design. The midrange, I’m considering either one or two drivers per cabinet, the reason for two would be power handling, although I’m also thinking that this may be overkill, and that one driver per, with good power handling may be the ticket. Manufacturers I’m considering for midrange are Morel, Seas, and ScanSpeak. Tweeters are yet another big question, but the more I research the topic, the more I lean toward soft domes, same manufacturers as the midrange. 

Crossovers are yet another War and Peace length set of considerations,  but I am thinking about active crossover between the bass cabinets and the mid/tweeter cabinets, a passive crossover between the mids/tweeters. Amps for the bass cabinets would be newly acquired D class, possibly in the 500 wpc range. I’d use the JC’s for the mid/tweeters cabinets. 

I’d be interested in any advice, comments, experiences of others, as long as they aren’t overtly rude.  Budget for either purchased or built would be in the $4000-$6000 range.  

And, I’ve been following with interest a thread on this forum regarding the merits/drawbacks of sealed and ported systems. Some interesting observations and opinions. 


dprincipato
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Lots of things can be DIY, but only a very few DIY can be done as cost-effectively as buying. Equipment racks and stands, because the best ones are massive you have an edge in cost over shipping. Acoustic panels, the raw materials are so dirt cheap you have an edge in being able to experiment in your own room with your own ears.

That’s about it. Everything else is so much more technical than you ever imagined, and the professionals making the stuff so light years far beyond your understanding let alone abilities, its not even close.

That’s not to say there’s not a lot of room for tweaks and mods. But tweaks and mods are totally different than DIY. Beware DIYers with designs telling you how easy it is to do better than professionals.

Ask them this simple question: if your DIY (fill in the blank) really is as good or better than (fill in the blank) and for less money, then why aren’t you selling it to make a profit?

The answer is they don’t. Because they can’t. Because it isn’t.
dprincipato OP
53 posts
 
Millercarbon,

“Ask them this simple question: if your DIY (fill in the blank) really is as good or better than (fill in the blank) and for less money, then why aren’t you selling it to make a profit?“

One reason is that making one pair of speakers is a very different animal than making hundreds or thousands of them.  And the need for a profit margin will most likely mean that the price point will get on par with the big manufacturers product. Certainly, the big manufacturers make their product for less than they sell it for.  With the investment of lots of research and lots of time and sweat, an experienced DIYer can make speakers to rival some of the big manufacturers products.  The high quality parts are readily available, and as profit isn’t the goal, the cash investment can ensure high quality instead of profit margin.  As for technical know how?  Agreed, I’ll never be designing and building any other part of my stereo system.  But speakers are a bit more like chess, deceptively simple, but a lifetime off study and experience.  And yet, accessible, thanks to the many professionals and others who have offered their expertise in books, articles, periodicals, online resources, etc.  Only Von Schweikert can make Von Schweikert speakers, even though many of the parts are readily available. But if someone has invested many years in the hobby of speakers building, quite possibly out of the joy of learning and doing, they can make a speaker that is just as satisfying, and enjoy the benefits of the experience of doing it. And they won’t be limited to Henry Ford’s color choices. 
b_limo, 
They do rock out, but only up to a point, and there lies the rub!  The ScanSpeak Revelator line has some of my potential choices for midrange and tweeter.  Even if they don’t get used in this potential project, I suspect they will show up in another. Morel And Seas are showing some stiff competition in those areas. 
Thanks for all comments,
Dave
b_limo's avatar
b_limo
2,289 posts
 
Buying used completely offsets the things you mentioned. 
I‘Ve extensively researched diy speakers vs production speakers and at the entry level prices I was looking at, even new speakers are a better choice in my oppinion.

The required woodwork to build a big floorstanding speaker, bracing the cabinet, painting it or veneering... this alone would turn me off to the project.  If woodwork is your hobby and something you enjoy doing, its a totally different story.  
Not to be a jerk here but if you are having a hard time just gaining access to the crossover in your triangles, well...

Also, if you e-mail Triangle and explain your issues they may have an answer!  They may e-mail crossover schematics too. 
It would appear that you’ve made up your mind with trying a diy project.  Is this your first time building speakers?  You’re willing to drop $4,000-$6,000??  What do you think the resale would be if you don’t like them?  How much time do you think it would take to build them?

There’s are all questions I had to ask myself when considering diy.

b_limo's avatar
b_limo
2,289 posts
 
Ok ok I could be wrong, lol


https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8726#&gid=1&pid=2

dprincipato OP
53 posts
 
Thanks b_limo, but the getting the crossover out was more a matter of the time I had to invest in the moment. I can get it out, and possibly will this weekend.  This wouldn’t be my first rodeo with building floorstanders, and I do enjoy woodworking. A big part of my job is building cantankerous entities out of a variety of materials, so considering and executing the construction approaches are part of the fun. I haven’t definitely decided to build, there are some products on the used market that may fill the bill.  But one thing I’m looking for is a sealed design, which aren’t all that common.  This alone tips me toward building. And, as Magico’s are outside my budget, and the fact they haven’t tickled my fancy sound-wise, well...  that’s one of the reasons I’m looking for suggestions on the used market. I’d like to know about more sealed designs out there. I have to disagree about building versus entry level though. With a budget of say $600, even a first time builder who’s willing to put in some research, time and effort, can wax most any commercially available product at the same price point. It’s moving up the food chain where diminishing returns may enter the equation. Here’s what I’ve learned:  there’s no substitute for quality parts.  It may be that you need to drop $1500 for four of the eight drivers you need, and yet another $1000 for the others.  Also, an excellently designed crossover with poor quality parts is a poor crossover.  Period. It’s in this area that manufacturers pull their punches. 
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