Which one to choose between two 80K$ tube amps?

Berning would be my choice if you have the appropriate speakers. To me speaker impedance trumps efficiency. If I were to buy a S.S. amp then the darTZeel would be on my short list, but there is no way in the more sublime aspects of reproduction that the dar is going to match the Berning. With higher impedance speakers, no amp type I have ever heard matches OTLs or David Berning's version of an OTL. 

@audition__audio

Berning would be my choice if you have the appropriate speakers. To me speaker impedance trumps efficiency. If I were to buy a S.S. amp then the darTZeel would be on my short list, but there is no way in the more sublime aspects of reproduction that the dar is going to match the Berning. With higher impedance speakers, no amp type I have ever heard matches OTLs or David Berning’s version of an OTL.

it’s not that simple. and i’m not qibbling that the OTL won’t have some nuance advantages over even the big darTZeel solid state on very high impedance speakers, but the ’not simple’ part is your choice of music and expectations for large scale music.

small combo jazz, blues, and vocals would tilt toward the OTL, but rock, big band, large scale classical and electronic would tilt back toward the darts in a large scale system......like mine. and those very high impedance speakers just don’t cut it when the music gets really complicated. the superb aspects of those speakers becomes just ok to good when things really start cranking and wild.

recently i not only had these OTL Berning’s in my system, but also the Lamm ML3 SET’s and big VAC 450 Statements. i enjoyed all those really fine tube amps. but my dart 458’s ran away and hid from all of those as the music scaled higher.

then my 458’s got replaced by the new 468’s, with even more musicality and fluidity. and the advantages of those tube amps on the more intimate stuff was reduced further.

i’m a guy who listens to lots of large scale classical in a large system. and nothing does that all around as well as the big darts to my ears.

45 minutes ago i was listening to the 45rpm reissue Mofi pressing of the ’Santana’ Lp, the cut ’Jingo’ at warp 9 on my big rig. this was an out-of-the-world musical experience with every molecule of my very large room energized. effortless, ease, matter-of-fact musical presentation without a sense of it being reproduced. just music.

the Berning OTL no matter the speaker would not have been in the neighborhood of that experience. and to me it is essential. just my 2 cents, YMMV.

The VAC Statement  is I'm certain  a fantastic amplifier.  It's high power push pull tubes which go in a different as would the big Jadis amplifiers. The Berning  and Lamm ML3 would definitely intrigue and interest me much more.  Berning OTL versus the Lamm SET on appropriate speakers would be something quite special. This is what's best audio forum territory 😊.
Charles 

i did start a WBF thread that ended up with 1200-1300 posts a couple of years ago about my experience with the ML3-VAC 450-Dart 458’s. lots of heavy breathing going on.

all three superb amps and it was a privilidge having all three in room together for 4 months. my large room did not look so large with all those big chassis sitting there.

then earlier about the Bernings.

Jadis