Thiel Owners

As I understand it; a speaker might be phase correct but not time correct, where as a time correct speaker will be phase correct.

Hi @unsound,

All multi-way speakers employ crossovers, and the phase must align correctly or there will be frequency response anomalies and lobing effects.

What I suggest you do is look at the Stereophile reviews for Thiel and Vandersteen speakers and compare them to say Monitor Audio or Wilson. your answer is there.

One area in phase that you is always left out is the phase of the midrange cone during playback.  If you look at the Wilson midrange it's out of phase as it's not a true pistonic driver.  That's not marketing hype by Vandersteen.  

I have no idea, but I wonder if the pre 2000 cones were phase correct for any speaker?  There are break up's when they aren't pistonic and it throws things out of phase.

On the flip side of phase, not everyone is effected by it.  Some folks don't even notice it, but they may notice soundstage depth and pinching in the rear.  Those who don't notice phase anomalies may be more aware of stage size etc...  We all hear differently. 

I'm the first to say that I couldn't listen to Wilson speakers until recently.  They have done a great job of making a dynamic speaker, that is non fatiguing, but to MY ears lack the micro and macro details that I am aware of as my Vandersteen's don't smear.  It effects the leading and trailing edges per say.  

All speakers have to have compromises.  It's who's compromises you like best or who's marketing you buy into.  Makes it fun.

One area in phase that you is always left out is the phase of the midrange cone during playback. If you look at the Wilson midrange it’s out of phase as it’s not a true pistonic driver.

I’m sorry but this is misinformed.

The correct polarity of the driver (which terminal is attached to + or - wires) has nothing to do with "true pistonic" motion. We assume they’re all pistonic in their operating range. The reason a speaker designer may flip a driver is to phase match the driver above or below it. The output’s phase angle is related to the rolloff.  This flip ensures optimum frequency response across the crossover region.  In fact, using positive polarity would create a deep null.

With traditional (non time-aligned) 2-way speakers, flipping the tweeter relative to the woofer is quite common. With three, having the mid-range flipped relative to the woofer and tweeter is.

The angle of the speaker’s baffle, the acoustic center of a driver and the crossover slopes all contribute to these choices. "Pistonic motion" does not.

Lastly, if we are talking about the sliced paper cone drivers Wilson uses, those are some of the very best sounding mid and mid-woofers in the world. I have them in my own speakers and many high end manufacturers have turned to them as well. They are amazing.

"Pistonic motion" does not.

To be fully accurate:  at a high enough frequency most cone drivers eventually have break up modes where the driver no longer functions as a piston.  It is the speaker designer's job to account for this in picking the driver and low pass filter.

There is no "true piston" vs. not designation in traditional drivers, just what range and what output levels they remain pistonic in.

The exception that proves the rule though are the Ohm type drivers, which are decidedly NOT pistonic. I believe they are fixed at one end, and driven at the other.