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PMC EB1i v. Thiel CS3.7 v. Pioneer S1-EX v. ???

I'm starting to look at speakers in the $10-16K range, new. These three are high on the list, along with used Vandie 5As. Tyler D20s and the new AZ Crescendos also interest me. Anyone have the chance to compare some or all of these fine speakers?

They'll be driven by Mac MC501 amps + C2300 pre. I listen mostly to '50s &'60s jazz, with some classic rock, bluegrass, and folk. 90% of the time I listen to vinyl on this rig. The room is 28x17x8, opening into hallways at both corners along the long wall behind the speakers (so no real bass issues in those corners). It's a hard room softened with 9 acoustic panels and two bass traps.

My listening priorities for this system are macro- and micro-dynamics, nuance, tonal purity, and realistic scale. I'd like the speakers to disappear while projecting a 3D soundstage and solid low frequency pressure into the room. (The Thiels would likely need a sub.) They'll also have to serve the 60-inch plasma TV on the wall 4 feet behind them in a 2-channel, pseudo-home theater set up. Not much to ask, I know.... :)

I can get a great local price on EB1is but I don't want the deal to make the call. Of course, I'll audition all of them eventually but it's impossible to find them all in one place--or even more than one. So I'd like to draw on the experience of this knowledgeable group as I make my way.

Thanks,
Bill
wrm57
cmalak
681 posts
 
My listening priorities for this system are macro- and micro-dynamics, nuance, tonal purity, and realistic scale. I'd like the speakers to disappear while projecting a 3D soundstage and solid low frequency pressure into the room.

You just described the Thiel 3.7s :-) If you can give them a listen, I would highly recommend them. I have not heard the other speakers on your list so I cannot say that the Thiels are better or worse on your criteria vs. the other speakers but on a stand-alone basis, they fit the bill.

(The Thiels would likely need a sub.)

Give them a listen as you may be surprised by their low frequency output. You may still decide that they do need to be supplemented by a sub but then again you may find that they deliver more than enough bass oomph. Thiel's subs are excellent by the way.

What will you be driving the next speaker with? That should be another consideration in terms of what speaker to choose.
wrm57 OP
1,057 posts
 
Shadorne: You're right, I'd have to step up to the IB2i to get the better PMC mid driver. It's one of the reasons I'm not sure about the EB1i. But given the deal I've been offered, I'd end up spending more close to 3X as much to make that step. (I said I didn't want the deal to make the call, but I have to be somewhat realistic, haha.) I guess the question becomes, is the EB1i mid driver a deal breaker?

Cmalak: I definitely plan to listen to the 3.7, though my wife thinks they're odd looking.:) For driving them, I'd like to stay with the MC501 and C2300, at least for now. They reportedly have good synergy with both the Thiels and the PMCs.
james63
534 posts
 
I was going to post but Cmalak summed up my thoughts already. I also am not sure why thiel gets a bad rap for their bass. I have always found there bass to be exceptional but your room is pretty big.

I imagine some of the negative bass comments come from people that read reviews like they are gospel. For example the Stereophile review's room had real issues. The 3.7 is flat down to 33hz in anechoic chamber. But in the Stereophile review the bass is down 4db @ 33hz, -8db @ 40hz, and -4db @ 60hz. There is also a large spike (5db ish) @ 80hz. The review then goes on the knock the low bass of the speaker. I mean really it is just shotty reviewing. Don't blame the speakers for a crap room. He probably dropped them in the same spot he drops big ported boxes. The "sealed" 3.7 will load the room a lot different.

Stereophile review

Ok rant over...

If you are going to buy the 3.7 you should see how they are made.
3.7 production documentary

PS do you have a dealer for the Pioneer S1-Ex, there seems to be all most none of them. I was interest in hearing the next model down but it seems to be impossible.
james63
534 posts
 
"I definitely plan to listen to the 3.7, though my wife thinks they're odd looking.:)"

They look pretty "normal" with the grills on and have an elegant shape in person. The shape make them seem smaller than they are...
wrm57 OP
1,057 posts
 
James63: I was going only on Thiel's published specs, not on reviews. I'm a fan of seal-enclosure bass and I like Thiel's system for integrating their subs, so I'd have flexibility if I need more bass. The EB1i goes to 19 Hz, however, so even if the 3.7 plays to 30, that's quite a difference. Yes, the room is big--even bigger than indicated because it's L-shaped with space off to one side--and it eats bass waves.

Re: Pioneer. I tracked down a local "consultant" dealer here in the SF Bay Area by calling Pioneer customer service. He has the S1-EX in one of his rooms but seems remarkably uninterested in making time for an audition appointment. Wants me to call back in the Spring.... says he's very busy. Good for him, in this economic climate!
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