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Vinyl / High qual analog tape / High-res digital -- One of these is not like the other

One common theme I read on forums here and elsewhere is the view by many that there is a pecking order in quality:

Top - High Quality Analog TapeNext - VinylBottom - Digital

I will go out on a limb and say that most, probably approaching almost all those making the claim have never heard a really good analog tape machine and high resolution digital side by side, and have certainly never heard what comes out the other end when it goes to vinyl, i.e. heard the tape/file that went to the cutter, then compared that to the resultant record?

High quality analog tape and high quality digital sound very similar. Add a bit of hiss (noise) to digital, and it would be very difficult to tell which is which. It is not digital, especially high resolution digital that is the outlier, it is vinyl. It is different from the other two.  Perhaps if more people actually experienced this, they would have a different approach to analog/vinyl?

This post has nothing to do with personal taste. If you prefer vinyl, then stick with it and enjoy it. There are reasons why the analog processing that occurs in the vinyl "process" can result in a sound that pleases someone. However, knowledge is good, and if you are set in your ways, you may be preventing the next leap.
roberttdid
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cleeds
6,021 posts
 
mikelavigne
... objectively the things digital misses are the tonal and timbrel completeness of musical parts, the focused dynamic power of the music, and the inner musical pace and flow. the data density of analog is much higher. the continuous-ness and tonal density are better. the ability to separate musical parts and retain air and dynamic shading is better......especially when the music gets very dense and complicated ...
Mike, we’re probably kindred spirits when it comes to this topic but for explaining our preferences. For example, when you say, "objectively the things digital misses ..." what you really mean is, "subjectively, the things digital misses ..."

Right?

If I’m wrong and you can objectively demonstrate this, please elaborate.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
The one that’s missing the solid transparent soundstage, the puffy air, the correct tone of instruments, the bass frequency structure and slam, proper harmonic structure and warmth and sweetness of real music. That’s the CD system one. 
mikelavigne
2,200 posts
 
well; i have lots of digital and vinyl masters from the same tape source.

my darTZeel amplifiers have steady state and peak watt readouts on their face plates. readable from the listening position.

i can play the same recording back to back and see the peak readout in wattage. it’s not close how much more dense and dynamic the peaks are on analog. for that matter the tape is better then the vinyl.

a horn at full tilt, a drum whack.......

digital simply cannot muster the information at peaks. cannot do it. on paper it is suppose to be better. your engineering prof said it’s better. our friendly local goofball physicist said it’s better. but they were wrong.

and this difference is at the heart of every difference i speak about. digital is washed out and blunted relative to great analog. it’s a fact. you do have to have analog that can actually play back what is in the grooves or on the tape. and also proper resonance treatment so you are not blunting the peaks. i do have that treatment.
roberttdid OP
534 posts
 
Somewhere out there Mike, there is a guy called George who would say your amplifiers are crap because they don't double in power output when you 1/2 the speaker impedance  :-) ...  and no I am not the one saying that and I don't agree with him.

What I will say is that even the peak watt meters will response somewhat "slow", and if there is a vast difference between the vinyl and digital wattage readings, that's the mastering, not whatever the source is, unless the source is artificially creating a "softer" sound.

Compared to CD, tape at 15, even 7.5 will have an extended frequency response past 20KHz. Compared to 24/96 or 24/192, the digital will have a much better frequency response >20KHz.
Musicians seem to most note the difference between vinyl and digital. They like how they sound on vinyl, but feel that high res digital is closer to reality (with all its warts).




geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
As far as I know I’m the only friendly goofball physicist here and I’m a tape person through and though, at least these days, unless there’s a whole lotta tweakin’ going on with the CD and the CD transport as I’ve been counseling, even then...  These truths are self-evident.
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