Vinyl / High qual analog tape / High-res digital -- One of these is not like the other

cd318

Thanks for your generous comment on my posts first...

If you wish to trust individual testimonies ahead of data then that’s your prerogative, but how does that help us decide which format is the most accurate?

My point is precisely that, it is impossible to solve that for now definitively, because too many factors are implicated+ a subjective experience(mikelavigne and friends) that no one neither any science can dismiss scientifically except by dogmatic affirmations based on numbers...

In this instance, since a question was posted, dialogue must involve acknowledging other opinions before making a judgement, must it not?

Dialogue is possible indeed only if one recognise the scientific fact of irreducibility of subjective experiences to numbers....

For the question posed by the OP i answer by a neutral stance, i am sure that digital is good and will progress in the years to come.... But i am sure also that some improved way to read vinyl on very high end system, can be also implemented, and can be now for some people, able to afford it, "better" to their ears.... How can we judge them wrong? Except by receding ourself to a non scientific dogma of the reducibility of the conscious perceiving experience to numbers?


I use myself only digital by the way......But i dont want to dismiss lavigne experience to a peculiarity of taste only because some measured engineering facts said so.....

In a single word, for what we know now digital is on par or better than vinyl theoretically speaking, but for some listener it is not....Why reducing their experience to "illusion"? I trust numbers and i trust people experience....For now the debate can be interesting indeed, but cannot be closed dogmatically but must stay a DIALOGUE precisely especially if someone has investigated with much money, time, and a very high end system....Never mind in day to day experience by ordinary listener, no ordinary system comparison can solve this question once for all, except dogmatically by appeal to numbers in place of human ears experience....My grain of salt....

My best regards to you for your generous takes on my impressions....

+1 mahgister - Excellent treatise on philosophy of listening and why you can never know what someone’s system sounds like without actually 🔜 being there 🔙 and hearing it yourself. Technical descriptions, color photographs, subjective evaluations cannot suffice for 🔜 being there 🔙 and hearing for yourself. For one thing, subjective descriptions of a system’s sound can be misleading, intentionally or not. Words describing sound can have different meanings to different people. For example, the words transparent, congealed, analytical, boomy, synthetic, etched, tinny, two-dimensional and compressed can have different meanings to different people.

For example, the words transparent, congealed, analytical, boomy, synthetic, etched, tinny, two-dimensional and compressed can have different meanings to different people.

These words are variable in their meaning similarly for the scientific so called mind or for the ignorant so called audiophiles....These words are related to the particular environment where they are used one time and by the particular people that use them.... No objective content of these words exist in the absolute sense....They are only relative orientation of meaning without an absolute consensus and they are not reducible to the reading of some numbers dials either....

My best to you in your future from my past.... :)

Dear @magister : """  Subjectivity versus objectivity is an obsolete scientific false debate for almost a century now....


The repudiation of subjective perception has no scientific meaning at all, and reduction of subjective perception to a "so called" objective one no ultimate meaning....Only a dialogue is meaningful but on the basis of the ultimate irreducibility of individual perception to any numbers there is.... ""

I have to disagree with you in what you posted there and the post that followed this one.

Maybe could be because I'm talking of different subjects than you and other gentlemans.

Even if through my posts you can think I'm diminished subjective opinions I want to confirm again that I did not and don't and my expression of the word " illusion " was not with a despective or dimished way to offend in no way the subjective gentleman opinios and if they take it ( as you ) my apolize for those.

Now, exist no debate between subjectivity and objectivity. It can't exist in any way.

Facts/objectivity are inviolable and with absolute certainty when in the other side opinions/subjectivity can't gives any one else but the one person with that opinion absolute certainty.

The main subject in what I posted before is to know not what we like to listen and its quality levels but if the self inherent LP limitations non-accurated technology can be more accurated than the digital medium.
Again what you like it or what I like it is almost unimportant to other than you or me and useless to analize that accuracy levels in those way different mediums to listen MUSIC. No room/system quality levels can't change/improve any medium limitations.

Here two of my posts to read it as an " abstract " way and only as facts where exist not only certainty about but a lot of measured information all over not only the links other gentlemans posted but over the internet:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vinyl-high-qual-analog-tape-high-res-digital-one-of-these-is/post?postid=1972331#1972331

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vinyl-high-qual-analog-tape-high-res-digital-one-of-these-is/post?postid=1972922#1972922

Till today any advocated audiophile to LP over digital on which is truer to the recording posted yet any single fact that could tell us the LP superiority to be truer to the recording than digital medium.
This is the subject idea I'm posting in this thread but maybe I did not understnd it what you or other gentlemans are or have under discussion.

Btw:

http://harryshifi.com/images/vinyl_tutorial.pdf


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

@rauliruegas


If someone says cable A sounds better than cable B, that is a Subjective opinion. If that same someone can reliably differentiate between cable A and cable B in a controlled blind test, then we have Objective proof the cables are different.

Anyone who doesn't believe in blind testing really does not trust their ears no matter what they may claim.