Buying a new TT today

@aj523

 Meanwhile all I hear about with other TTs like Technic (which they used to sell at Toys R Us when I was a kid) is how people tweak the hell out of them and I wonder if those tweaks really work then why doesnt the manufacturer build them in?

This is the best explanation that you have no idea what you're talking about, because a brand new Technics with Coreless DD motor is not what was in the shops near your kinder garden back in the day. As always you (just like some other people) mixed up together and OLD and NEW, expecting OLD and NEW is the same if there is a Technics logo on it. Regarding an old Technics that is still the best even today i can only recall two models SP-10mkII with EPA-100 tonearm, and SP-10mk3 with EPA-100 mk2 tonearm, nothing else. Fully adjustable (with dynamic damping) Technics EPA-100 and EPA-100 mk2 are two amazing tonearms from the past that can beat almost everything today!   

The whole Technics tooling was completely rebuild after they went out of business for a long time, they made a return only few years ago with a brand new line of High-End turntables. One of the reason is 100 Anniversary date. Technics brought SP-10R on the market and this is a killer reference class high-end turntable.   

Do you understand the difference between belt-drive Technics and direct-drive Technics? Technics also made belt-drive turntables in the past, but after a years of research they only keep making Direct Drive. Have you ever seen how many different models Technics made in the past? Now forget all that and read about SP-10R and it's budget version with the same motor SL1200G (and cheaper model is SL1200GR).   

Rega is just a tiny company compared to the Matsushita (Technics/Panasonic/National) giant of the industry. The reason why Technics turntable does not cost too much money is because they're making millions of them. 

These turntables does not require any tweaks at all to remain reference class Direct Drive turntables today. 

@chakster Sorry no idea what you are talking about. Because I asked about upgrading a stock cable that means I’m trying to change everything on this incredible machine?

Guess what? You can’t tweak the hell out of a Rega and that’s what makes it so special unlike other DD and other designs. Its not meant to be upgraded so not sure what threads you are talking about where people are trying to upgrade everything.

Rega isn’t going to put a $300 power cord on their table, they use a basic power cable that they didn’t design and its the law of diminishing returns....but that doesn’t mean its necessarily a complete waste. I was just asking anyway. Jesus. So glad i didn’t go with a Technic or other DD design. They are ugly too.

@aj523

I don’t care about power cord for any turntable (always using stock power cable), there is no sound related to the turntable power cord at all, power cord just transfer required voltage to the TT power supply to rotate the platter. Since all my turntables are Direct Drive with stable rotation I don’t believe in this snake oil power cords, fuses and all that expensive modern BS for turntables to suck money from audiof**ls.

I have never ever upgraded anything in my Direct Drive turntables, even if they are 30 y.o. i use them as it is, but i do care what i’m buying when it comes to vintage turntables (or anything) - it must be like new and perfectly working.

I did not change anything is my Technics SP-10 mkII drive, it was mint condition and after many years of using i sold it as it is (still mint-) to a friend and it’s still properly working without re-capping or anything. Only lubrication of the motor as required by the manufacturer.

I did nothing to my pair of reference DD i am using now (Luxman PD-444) in my system. I made (metal) custom racks for each of them. I did not change feet or whatever like electronics, i have never replaced power cord or anything like that. I do change mats and tonearms because this turntable designed for those who use many tonearms. A reference class turntable (in my opinion) must be reference as it is, no tweaks needed at all.

@chakster Haven’t I read you post about upgrading feet on the Technics turntables?

@big_greg

I’ve mentioned Audio-Technica High-End pneumatic insulator designed for all king of components. The weak part of an old Technics Obsidian Plinth (made in the 70’s) can be solved with AT-616 pneumatic insulator. Same about any other very old plinth from the 20th century.

I also replaced stock feet on my old pair of Technics from the 90’s when isonoe released direct replacement feet.

BUT it is not necessary for a brand new Technics turntables made in 21st century, the stock feet already nice on SL1200GR or G models. And i think any manufacturer today must think about new standards and they have to supply a turntable with very nice stock feet.

I would rather design a dedicated (nice and heavy) rack for each turntable. I made a few already.

Reading Simone Yorke Blog i can see this dude sells his belt-drive turntables with very nice racks, this is the right concept!

I think the upgrade game is more something Linn does. Their upgrades are numerous to the point that the guy who sold me my Rega told me a guy spent $25K on an LP12.

@sokogear

And Linn, yes :))

Chakster: I’ve heard of a couple of the brands you mentioned above in your vast cartridge inventory, and seem to be a cartridge analyst for Absolute Sound, but I was wondering, of the cartridges currently commercially available and in production, what cartridge would you recommend for a Rega P8 (other than Rega’s 2 MC’s) from a value standpoint?

@sokogear One modern LOMC cartridge i bought myself after a long time of searching for it (not willing pay retail price) was Miyajima Kansui, but your tonearm probably is not heavy enough for it.

I’ve heard good things about Hana, and of course there are the usual suspects of Koetsu, Lyra, Clear Audio, Ortofon, Dynavector, etc. I have a Sutherland Insight phono stage with the Linear Power Supply that has 4-5 adjustable load settings from 100 to 47K ohms.Thanks for your advice.

@sokogear

For Koetsu you need super heavy tonearm (just like for Miyajima Kansui). So your Rega tonearm is not good for Low Compliance cartridges.

I really enjoyed Dynavector cartridges, in KARAT series the latest i have is 17DS2 mkII. Looking at Dynavector website now i can see the latest is KARAT 17DX.

Lyra, Clear Audio (just like Dynavector Te-Kaitora model) are all have this long unprotected cantilever and in my opinion this is extremely dangerous (very easy to break) design, i would never buy anything like that for practical reason (the price is very high).

Personally i would never spend over $2k for any modern High-End cartridge, because there are so many stunning performers even under $1k if you will look for vintage MM/MI or even MC. You should really try some decent MM/MI to break this stereotype forever. In fact an MM/MI can be as good as MC or even better.

Thanks Chakster. Sounds like I should probably just send my Van den hul One Special back to the factory for the $5-600 overhaul. They do whatever needs to be done to bring it back to new.

It’s  interesting that you mention cantilever length-that is something VDH talks about extensively in those links I sent out from their Web site. Theirs is extremely short to minimize travel in the rubber base of the cantilever that wears. It makes life between service intervals to 2500-3500 hours instead of normal 1500-2000. They also have a special stylus shaped so it actually goes deeper (like a sharp pencil tip versus a rounder elliptical one) into the groove and produces less residue (called VDH stylus) which also extends the length of service intervals. Koetsu I believe has no rubber base at all (it might be Lyra).

Although it retails for $1850, I was able to get the One Special from a highly respected local dealer who had taken it in as a trade for a higher level VDH cartridge after his customer only used it for a very short time.for $700, the amount VDH gave him for trade in credit to the new $3500 Frog (I beleive).

It is a high output MC with .65 output with 200 ohm recommended impedance and I’ve been very happy with it, and it sounds even better with the Sutherland Insight I mentioned above I recently bought privately.
Please keep up the banter with AJ-it is hilarious.

BTW, I didn’t think Panasonic (Technics) ever went out of business, just stopped making tables for a while. Interesting....

@chakster I'm not into power cord upgrades but I'll call Rega anyway tomorrow. Their stand alone PSU is pretty impressive but I'm sure they will tell me not to waste my money.   Our first agreement and its on wasteful tweaks ! 

Btw, if you have a 30 year old Technics, you might indeed have the Toys rUs version ( that was for Sogogear) ! 

if you have a 30 year old Technics, you might indeed have the Toys rUs version ( that was for Sogogear) !

@aj523

Definitely RUS version because I’m in Russia :)
My SL1210mkII was $350 in 1995 in local Technics/Panasonic shop, and i was 19 (good times).

It’s interesting that you mention cantilever length-that is something VDH talks about extensively in those links I sent out from their Web site. Theirs is extremely short to minimize travel in the rubber base of the cantilever that wears. It makes life between service intervals to 2500-3500 hours instead of normal 1500-2000. They also have a special stylus shaped so it actually goes deeper (like a sharp pencil tip versus a rounder elliptical one) into the groove and produces less residue (called VDH stylus) which also extends the length of service intervals.

@sokogear

The shortest cantilever i ever tried was IKEDA9c III cantilever-less design :) No cantilever at all, maybe you will like it.

Another one is Dynavector KARAT with very short (1.7 mm) Diamond cantilever, here is the interview with its inventor Dr. Tominari (Dynavector Systems). My old Dynavector thread is here.

VdH stylus, Fritz Gyger stylus, and Ortofon Replicant stylus... are nearly the same, the difference is who’s got the patent and unique name for it. Garrott problers displayed them well here.

Stanton/Pickering invented Stereohedron right after Quadrahedron.

But Shibata-San at JVC/Victor who invented and patended Shibata stylus was first.

New Miyajima Kansui has Shibata stylus because Miyajima-San love it.

BTW, I didn’t think Panasonic (Technics) ever went out of business, just stopped making tables for a while. Interesting....

@sokogear
In this thread definitely meant Technics turntables they stopped making for many years, but at that time Panasonic printers and Panasonic electric shavers were available and i bought them (and happy about quality, no upgrades since that time).