One of the benefits of something like the Node2i is there is a reasonably good sized company behind it which means the likelihood of good software support for an extended period, which could become important as things like digital rights/etc. change. As someone mentioned above, splitting that function from the DAC gives you flexibility of upgrade without saddling yourself with an expensive function that becomes obsolete.
Wisdom of buying high priced digital gear (given new advancements underway)
Wanted to ask for thoughts from others on the forum who have been playing with digital front ends longer than I... I only recently dove into streamed hi res music given the Covid shut-in...(although I am climbing the learning curve pretty fast)
I have been an avid trader/tester of good used hifi gear for many years now, a cost effective way of auditioning and understanding high end pieces in my own system, my own home. Not for publication or posted reviews, just for my enjoyment and improving my own rig. Buy smart on the front end, can usually get all or most of your money back when you sell, so it is a fairly low cost trial and ownership experience.
As I am fairly new to the world of stand-alone streamers and DACs, as well as combo units like a Hegel amp with onboard DAC, my question is whether it is wise to buy some of the more expensive high end streamers and DACs, say in the 3-4-5 grand (and up) range.
For instance, a Bluesound Node 2i is a capable digital bit-source (weak internal DAC noted) at only $500, so I question the benefit of buying a $2-3-4k unit from Innuos, Brooklyn, Auralic etc etc? But if I do, just to try them, I am concerned there will be newer units out in the future, and these used units may take significant value hits.
Same thought for high end DACs... there are so many DACs out there, from high-value units like Chord, Schitt, RME for around a grand (or even less) -- what is the downside risk of climbing the curve of diminishing returns to get, say, for example, a Denafrips Terminator or PS Audio DS or Chord Dave for $4-5-6 grand used?
I guess what I am really asking is what is the relative stability of the technology, product development, and the trickle down effect in the streamer and DAC markets, and does this materially affect the loss of value for the higher priced units more so than with old school analog gear. This is something I feel I pretty well understand for speakers, preamps, turntables, the like...but not so much for the digital stuff, especially as streaming is really developing fast on the high end scene in recent years...
Thoughts welcome. Thanks in advance.
I have been an avid trader/tester of good used hifi gear for many years now, a cost effective way of auditioning and understanding high end pieces in my own system, my own home. Not for publication or posted reviews, just for my enjoyment and improving my own rig. Buy smart on the front end, can usually get all or most of your money back when you sell, so it is a fairly low cost trial and ownership experience.
As I am fairly new to the world of stand-alone streamers and DACs, as well as combo units like a Hegel amp with onboard DAC, my question is whether it is wise to buy some of the more expensive high end streamers and DACs, say in the 3-4-5 grand (and up) range.
For instance, a Bluesound Node 2i is a capable digital bit-source (weak internal DAC noted) at only $500, so I question the benefit of buying a $2-3-4k unit from Innuos, Brooklyn, Auralic etc etc? But if I do, just to try them, I am concerned there will be newer units out in the future, and these used units may take significant value hits.
Same thought for high end DACs... there are so many DACs out there, from high-value units like Chord, Schitt, RME for around a grand (or even less) -- what is the downside risk of climbing the curve of diminishing returns to get, say, for example, a Denafrips Terminator or PS Audio DS or Chord Dave for $4-5-6 grand used?
I guess what I am really asking is what is the relative stability of the technology, product development, and the trickle down effect in the streamer and DAC markets, and does this materially affect the loss of value for the higher priced units more so than with old school analog gear. This is something I feel I pretty well understand for speakers, preamps, turntables, the like...but not so much for the digital stuff, especially as streaming is really developing fast on the high end scene in recent years...
Thoughts welcome. Thanks in advance.
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What does more expensive streamer get you? We are transferring bits over Ethernet or USB. My understanding is better streamers have lower analog noise transferred on the wire to the DAC. A fiber optical cable (not the same as Toslink) is said to not be able to carry this analog noise. So wouldn’t a streaming solution that incorporated fiber optical from your network switch be the ultimate solution? If and when I need a second streamer I will get the SystemOptique system from these guys. My current "noisy" microRendu works well. https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/pages/systemoptique If I win a lottery today I may get the Lumin X1 DAC with built-in Fiber Optical streaming input. My prediction is future DACs will also have this type of FIbre Optical input. BTW - I was talking on A’gon PM with someone who bought the ROON only version of this SystemOptique and said it was better than his Bluesound Node 2i. |
New technology and advances in quality and cost are always a consideration. Many things do get better and cheaper in time. I paid $900 for my first VCR in the early 80s. My first calculator, a Texas Instrument model cost $79.00 and the characters were tiny. I still have it just for sentimental reasons. High Def TVs are getting better and cheaper every day. I know I'm not telling you folks anything you don't already know, I just wanted to reminisce a little and offer my two cents. I don't post often but I love this site. I read it every day and have learned a lot, thanks. Doug Hess, Newtown Square, Pa. |
What is "high priced"? In the context of a $500 Node 2i, then perhaps my $2K TEAC NT-505 is "high priced". In the context of my vinyl playback system and most of the other components in my system, it's a bargain. The NT-505 was a noticeable improvement over my Node 2 / Auralic Vega DAC combination. So spending more can get you more. Would a $10K DAC sound that much better than my $2K DAC? I would expect there to be a little more resolution and detail, but how much more? The difference between $500 and $2000 is not that much to me, but the difference between $2000 and $10000 is. The NT-505 is pretty much a closed system - streamer and DAC, no upgrades other than adding an external master clock and whatever firmware upgrades come out for it. There's no digital out, so if some must have feature comes out, I have no way to connect it with an external DAC that has that magic feature. I don't feel stuck at all, I'm not sure what new feature is going to come out that is going to make me feel like I have to replace what I have. I trade components out of my system on a somewhat frequent basis, but I can see this piece staying for a long time. I had a friend over last night and until recently he owned a $13K Lumin X1 and overall has a much more expensive system (one of the best I've ever heard). After listening for a bit, he asked me to write down the name of the NT-505 so he could do some research on it. I don't think he thought the NT-505 was better, but it was clear that after living with a top of the line DAC like the X1 he was impressed by the sound quality of my much less expensive DAC. My favorite DAC, the MHDT Labs Orchid, doesn't do MQA, DSD, or Roon, and only outputs at 16 bits. All of which mean nothing to me, because I enjoy listening to it, which is what matters the most. To me. |
@gdnrbob ayre codex... workin’ on it! thanks! @lalitk re the node 2i, yep, i have it... good streamer, poor dac, good interface, but really can’t complain for the $ @big_greg i pretty much agree with your definition of expensive... i am lucky to be able to afford most audio equipment, short of the insane megabuck pieces. losing a couple hundred bucks on a piece is no problem, when its over a grand or more on a single piece, i think carefully i also agree on your notion that it is all about how good it sounds, could care less about MQA or high res in and of themselves, but since they have a lot attention through marketing if nothing else, i have checked them out to see what they have to offer... and in doing so, the original posted question has come to mind streaming services are in flux, wifi bandwidth and usage is in flux, chip companies and hifi equipment makers big and small keep working on new stuff, for better or worse, from an audiophile sound quality perspective |
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