A challenge to the "measurement" camp

glupson5,731 posts07-10-2020 1:10amJust to remind everyone, on a consumer level current world is cableless.

Ask any 20-year-old what cables are for. She/he may not have even one in their possession and yet be entirely functional. Many, if not most, have only cable for phone charger. Some not even that.

If you truly want to advance signal transmission, figure out better quality wireless and not novelty cable.

The problem is a bit ’off’, as you see..there is an inherent and so far unsolved problem with ADC devices. They cannot parse a signal fine enough for high fidelity to actually ’be’ in the world of wireless. That they miss the point and the ear hears it or rather covers it up and hums along, in most people's cases. (most people have no idea how the ear/brain works, much to the loss of high en aduio, overall)

As, for wireless to work, we have to digitally encode an analog signal, every time, unless it is all electronic music being reproduced. As all signals in audio were originally analog and then converted with the FAULTED ADC devices. You know, the ones with the fundamental problem that has yet to be solved, that no one like to talk about. They talk about it so little that the vast number of audiophiles do not know the problem exists.

when we get to the end of all that, we find that analog cables, in an all triode or v-fet system, is the only real functional signal capturing and playback chain.

The rest is just distorted derivations, reduction after reduction until we’re left with a turd.

Which is how we got to the current stories about all the kids freaking out about how WE...the older crew, somehow had all the magic music during our time.

The loss is due to the slow erosion of the carrier, medium, the delivery system. Pidgin carrier means pidgin language means pidgin meaning/mind/people/message/etc. It’s a simple thing, if you can reach it. Garbage carrier means garbage message...

The art of making it work with the human ear was never realized as the problem or issue that it really is .... and the whole thing got thrown in the garbage over convenience and money. Reduced to a turd for the convenience of the modern average man. We lost the thread and the meaning behind fidelity, or, more properly never really realized what it was about and how it related to the human ear.

We are finally getting to understand how the human ear works with all this stuff and we can go back and correct the 35-50 years of mess that we call transistors and digital.

Thanks for the interesting thoughts indeed....

While I agree with listening experiments with cables, my quarrel is with the "physics" used to sell cable designs. The most common is skin effect, which is accused of causing high frequency roll-off and distorting phase angles of different frequencies. Cable marketers flatter the buyer with their discussions of these things, secure in the knowledge very few people understand it with enough depth to be able to calculate what these things do. Skin effect increases the resistance of a typical speaker by about 0.o1 Ohms at 20 kHz, something that can be calculated from any E&M textbook used in master's degree level courses. In series with speakers with DC resistance of 4 Ohms the roll-off is less than 0.01 db at 20 kHz. Cable designers should know this and if they do, they can't be bothered to admit litz construction of individual strands "solves" a problem that does not exist. Accounts of phase distortion from different length signal paths in stranded cable and the signal "jumping" between strands might vary the signal path by at most a centimeter or two and at 3 x 10^8 meters per second, the speed of light, phase angle "smearing" is on the order of 10^-10 seconds. Nobody can hear such a thing. If the "distortion" between grain structure of copper emulating littler diodes starting and stopping signal transmission a long radio or television antenna could not overcome a diode threshold conducting voltage at the micro-Volts off an antenna. Resistance in a cable introduces Johnson-Niquest noise due to thermal effects of conduction electrons and it is proportional to the Kelvin temperature. This can be reduced by thicker cable but in a speaker sub-micro-Volts is irrelevant. Thus, I ask, why should I trust a cable manufacturer who charges hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars for a set of cables and why would not someone who invested his ego in buying such cables convince himself the thousands of dollars set of speaker wires makes a difference?
Everything else designed in electronics relies upon mathematics and real physics, but cables do not.
Can I be blamed for my skepticism after catching cable marketers for scientific fraud?

For sure not..... :)

Cables difference is a fact easy to experience.... But price there is thief and fraud also  too often....

The only people who make the claims you make Teo are people who don’t truly understand the technology. I have heard enough live and recorded music in short succession in a variety of situations to know, without any doubt, that well implemented high-res digital is the most accurate recording and playback, superior to analog tape at any speed. People who make claims about "missing resolution" in digital especially high resolution do not understand the technology. It is an ignorant position taken from a position of lack of knowledge and experience.

p.s. ever heard of FM or AM radio? ... been around way before digital.

when we get to the end of all that, we find that analog cables, in an all triode or v-fet system, is the only real functional signal capturing and playback chain.

No, that is just silly. You are confusing pleasing with accurate and they are not remotely the same thing. You are trying to take the complexity of sound, the ear and the brain, and claim the equivalent complexity in a signal in a cable or the storage of "data" required for that signal whether analog or digital. They are not remotely of the same level of complexity. It is a weak argument that is again, only made by people who have not thought this through.

The magic of the music has nothing to do with the format, it has to do with the industry. You seem to be joining mahgister on the conspiracy front.