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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
OP, I was thinking about a 6.5" lid. In the seated position. 
Your ears in a normal chair, are pretty close to the ceiling.

That's a BIG problem. I would try a low rider chair, just to see
if that would tame a lot of the HF, issues your speaking of.

I would also pitch the top of the speakers. forward, 5-15 degrees.

Eric, said in the first post (and I agree,100%) room treatment of a particular, and really peculiar, type is needed. You have a very different room, for sure.

You say your pretty new to the HiFi world, understand like most, I had to learn 40 years ago, too. TREAT the area your in FIRST, as much as you can, then place as best you can.  

Your speakers, or your ears can't be that close to a border... HEAVY (right) over your head defusion, or you'll boil your ears. Stay away from clad wire. Silver over copper, can be REAL bright, with ANY hard dome.. Pure copper, pure silver... Just not as bright.. Soft domes are not as bright, GOOD planars are not bright. 

There are a lot of ways to tame "Bright", normally it's not the speaker as much as the, room, weird cables, and roll a signal valve or two.
I know my valve units VERY well.. Pretty easy to adjust, "Bright" in or out of my units..

Regards
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,994 posts
 
@mammothguy Thanks for the report about the Dyns. I've seen the Confidence series used (about 1/2 price at The Music Room) and I think they had the Contour series recently. Possibly of interest. I'm really starting to realize that I've just got too much energy, overall, in the room. Bookshelves or at least smaller towers are probably the way to go.

@oldhvymec
Great suggestions; thanks for a helpful post. I'm going to swap my seats out today and try your suggestions. Will avoid those wires, too, and the experiment with soft domes will continue, soon.

But if you're right about seating position, and if I do more work on the area acoustics, I may be able to get the detail I'm looking for from a well implemented non-soft dome tweeter, like the Be tweeter or perhaps an AMT. I'll have a nice trio of options to compare soon -- Fritz soft-dome bookshelves, Salk Be dome bookshelves, Dynaudio soft dome towers (shorter than ML or Focals).

ditusa's avatar
ditusa
1,895 posts
 
HILDE45 try two nimbus clouds above the speakers on the ceiling one above each speaker
kenjit
1,771 posts
 
You will need your speakers custom tuned to your ears. When you buy a pair of shoes you buy the size that fits your feet. Its the same with speakers if you want perfect sound you will need them to be tuned by hand. 
djverne
77 posts
 
Hi HLD,

I have the Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II, I also have had the Fritz Carbon 7, Fritz Rev 5, and the first Fritz Carrera. None of these speakers are bright and all of them have something very unique about their sound. The Fritz Carrera Be May be something you want to take a look at. It has even more detail then Carbon 7 mk II (but is less bright) better sound stage depth and extension, and has a midrange that is lush, magical, and rich. It also can be driven by a few watts... Fritz even demoed it with a Tube Headphone amp at one the shows. 
Under $4000 your not gonna find a speaker you like more if you have and eversion to bright treble. The Dynaudio that you are going to try will be probably have less magic in the midrange but you will like the mechanical nature of its control and prat. Be forewarned though as they require amplification that cost a lot more ( the Fritz speaker responds well to pretty much any amp). If you are entertaining the thought of the special 40 you may be disappointed in its midrange as they really skimped on the crossover. 
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