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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
ditusa's avatar
ditusa
1,879 posts
 
BIGKIDZ your right the speakers are reproducing what they are being feed reproducing that sound in a room reflecting off the floor first ceiling and walls now you hear the room treat the room so you can hear the speakers speakers are 50% of the sound in a room the room is 50% of the sound in a room no room treatment live with 50%of sound  no way out going to the moon is a great idea going with your car not a great idea its hope less
big_greg
6,622 posts
 
The Canton Vento Reference 9.2 DC are nice speakers with lots of bass for their size and are fairly neutral.  I have them in my bedroom system.  Having said that, you can get a lot more speaker for $4000.
oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
The room is tough, but you understand, how important it is to address, that is the key.. As much "CORRECT" room treatment, as you can handle. It's gonna be right over your head and corners, for sound anyways. Don't go to many directions.. Most speakers will work, just not to tall of a speaker, MTM will work better, if you can clock the tweeter, that's a big plus too.

Regards
brownsfan
1,508 posts
 

As usual, there is a divergence of opinions.  I agree with a lot that has already been said, but I'm going to try to tie together the best of it and add one or two other points.


  1. Pure guess on my part, but of the speakers you listed, I’d lean strongly towards the Fritz. I have experience with Scan Speak soft domes.  If they are too bright, look elsewhere for the problem.  They are respectable with regard to resolution and imaging, but not necessarily world class. I also encourage you to seriously evaluate the Fritz near field.  If the room is part of the problem, and I am almost certain it is, near field listening may be the easiest “quick fix” even if it will only be a partial fix.  If I had to move quickly, Id go with the Fritz and start working on the room. 
  2. Your room dimensions are way outside the Bolt area and  you also do not have a favorable Bonello modal distribution.  Your room IS a problem.  I’d avoid full range speakers until you are willing to invest heavily into room treatments. 
  3. 6.5 ft ceilings and 14 ft side walls can be brutal in creating flutter echo.  Play some sustained high frequency test tones and if you have flutter echo you will hear it right away provided you hit the right frequencies.  This can be ear piercing.  My room has 8 ft ceilings and 14 ft side walls and I am still trying to defeat flutter.  You are going to have to deal with side wall reflection in a 14 ft wide room to address flutter and get decent imaging.  If your floor is not carpeted with a deep pile you are probably going to need to treat the ceiling as well.
  4. Download Room Equalization Wizard and learn how to use it and interpret the results.  It takes time, but it will save you a lot of wasted time, effort, money, and frustration in the end.   The individual who said “the room is the speaker” was correct.  In most rooms, at least 80% of what you are going to get out of a system is based on optimal selection of speaker and main listening positions.  



kenjit
1,771 posts
 
The problem is @hilde45 isnt willing to have his speakers retuned but still wants optimum sound quality. You cant have it both ways. 
The fact of the matter is the speaker crossover does make a big difference to how harsh it sounds and nothing else you do will mitigate that. The problem could be something as simple as the tweeter level being set too high. If you dont want to accept the answer to your problem theres no point in seeking help. 
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