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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
audiokinesis
2,753 posts
 
Regarding the ASR review of the Salk WOW1 speakers:

That speaker was designed to be used UP AGAINST THE WALL, and its overall frequency response curve is imo CORRECT for a small speaker which will be getting a lot of boundary reinforcement from that wall. If the WOW1 had plenty of low end, in the measurements, it would sound bloated when placed against the wall.

Regarding the dip at 600 Hz, dips are less audible than peaks and 600 Hz is NOT a bad place to have a dip. There are three frequency regions I pay particular attention to, where erring on the side of dippage is preferable to erring the other way, and arguably preferable to "flat". 600 Hz falls within one of these regions.

Finally, Amir did not audition these speakers up against the wall, so it is not surprising that he didn’t like them. He tries to be as consistent as possible in his measurement and audition conditions, which is not a bad thing, but it does result in some measurements being imo incompletely interpreted, and in some speakers being auditioned under conditions they were not designed for.

So imo ASR’s review of the Salk WOW1 should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Duke
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,143 posts
 
@audiokinesis Thanks for the additional knowledge. It helps me understand why some of these effects are happening, and even though it doesn't replace listening tests, it narrows down what is more or less likely to work.
johnread57's avatar
johnread57
237 posts
 
Does anyone else treat the room before buying speakers? What about change the treatments if you install new speakers?
The OP has said he’s not going to treat the room first. Is this a deal breaker? 
OP - what about Monitor Audio say Bronze or Gold? Start with the Bronze first...
cowan217's avatar
cowan217
112 posts
 
If your budget is up to 4k why would you be auditioning a $600 pair of Klipsch ? I had Focal 1038, Focal Sopra 2 in my 13x22 room that was treated running on a Pass 250.8 and have a REL s5/sho avail to use to. The 1038 though lower priced (bought used on this site for 4k as I recall) they were more musical than the $7500 Sopra 2 which were too etched/detailed and often bright. I then sold them and bought Harbeth 30.2 Anniversary - used for 4k- which are fantastic. Musical, never fatiguing and the best I can recall owning in 40 years of owning tons of gear. Simple boxes, simple crossovers, simple stands but wow- they're great. Check out some reviews. Often it comes down to room acoustics, treatment, then the electronics. I listen to jazz, funk, soul jazz, Americana, and a wide variety of other things, the Harbeth do it all (IMO).
cowan217's avatar
cowan217
112 posts
 
BTW, one of the best features Roon offers IMO is a parametric EQ- gives you infinite control of eq'ing your room- super easy and effective, all digitally. Once you treat your room for slap echo/brightness then try using their EQ function for the rest. You can try Roon for free for a week or two as I recall. 
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