Direction on my next upgrade

All the options you're considering have one thing in common: they are all spending money on expendable components you will inevitably lose money on when it comes time to upgrade. 

Things that will improve your system as much or more without ever losing any money because they will be used wherever you go forever: Synergistic Research HFT, ECT, PHT, Cable Elevators, BDR Cones. 

You are getting into a range where with some wise decisions its possible to find extremely high value components in the $3k to $5k range. That may seem like a lot, 2x to 4x what you're talking about. But really all it means is spreading it out over a longer period of time. This patience is rewarded by getting you into Koetsu, Raven, Herron, Tekton territory. 

You mention a sub. A sub is a bad idea. A DBA, four subs, is a terrific idea. For around $3k you can have SOTA bass. Most of us with a DBA are set for life. No desire to upgrade. How many can say that about their bass???  So a sub could be a good idea- if its phase one of four. 

Anyway that's my advice. Extract the most from what you have first, and only then look to upgrade what you have. See: mahgister.

cpd, I would be inclined to upgrade your Rogue. If you listen to more dynamic music like Rock and Jazz you will not like switching to an inexpensive MC cartridge. MM cartridges are more dynamic and generally do better at the lower price levels. They will track better than inexpensive MC's  Consider a MC cartridge once you are ready to spend 2 grand. 
Subwoofers are great but you will need at least two. One just does not make it. Also you will need an active crossover with a high pass filter for your main amp. The crossover that come with the subs are IMHO pretty bad. Consider subwoofers when you are ready to spend about 4 grand.

Thanks Millercarbon and Mijostyn. I had a feeling I might get that response. I am definitely interested in Raven audio as a future upgrade but not right now. I am glad to get some clarity on MC cartridges. Would I get any noticeable benefit from going from the $230 ortofon blue to a $750 ortofon black(also upgrading the rogue)? Wait a few months and upgrade my integrated?

Hi Cpd,

As a fellow Rogue owner (V3) with upgraded tubes, I would recommend the following upgrade options:

1. Upgrade your Rogue to V3. Change the tubes (Brimars from upscale audio or equivalent). Upgrade the stylus to Ortofon Bronze (black is better but you’ll save money and the bronze is noticebly better than the blue). Pair with Warfedale Linton Heritage Speakers (or Harbeth if you wanna spend more)

2. Don’t invest in upgrading the Rogue (For only a few months), get the Raven (or Prima Luna etc), Ortofon Black, and equivalent speakers.

Good luck on the never ending journey!

best,

-M

MM cartridge is excellent for all kind of music and if you really want true reproduction without coloration then you have to buy an MM cartridge, but not that modern crap, you need a classic MM cartridge from the golden age, with advanced stylus profile on it, and tons of fans worldwide, I mean people who really understand what is a good MM cartridge (not what reviewers telling them these days). The problem with modern MM is very simple: manufacturers are not competing with each other to make the best sounding MM anymore, vinyl is not the main format and they can sell an average MC for much higher prices (almost 10 times higher price than MM) and this is where they are using exotic materials sometimes to justify the cost.

Read this article from the archive of the TAS magazine and I hope it will help you to understand why MM is better. See which MM cartridge has been using by professionals for disk mastering, see which one sound like master tape. Check what is Stanton/Pickering’s Stereohedron stylus tip:

"Stereohedron stylus can be used for 1000 hrs. We recommend checking your stylus every 250 hrs. Like its cousin, the Quadrahedral, the STEREOHEDRON stylus is shaped to provide an enlarged area of record groove contact, while providing the ability to accurately trace the high frequency, the level modulations found on today’s records, thus, the Stereohedron stylus provides superior performance which low stylus wear and low record wear for your stereo records. This cartridge will perform superbly not only with stereo, but with four-channel matrix derived systems (SQ, QS, etc). "


...And buy yourself a NOS (New Old Stock) Pickering XSV/4000 cartridge for $750, you will not find anything better than this spending money on MC and then on re-tipping of MC. I collect all top Pickering and Stanton models of MM cartridges and I have some of the best LOMC too. Let me tell you that Stanton 981 or SC100 WOS is the best you can get for the money and Pickering XSV/4000 or XSV/5000 are amazing.

As far as i know, chronologically, Pickering XUV/4500Q with Quadrahedron stylus for CD-4 records was the predecessor of the Stereohedron series. The first Stereohedron series was the XSV/3000 model. Reading an old review I noticed that Stereohedron was preferable over Quadrahedron for stereo records. In other words even XSV/3000 was better than XUV/4500Q. The next cartridge from Pickering surpassed them all! It was an improved XSV/4000 Stereohedron series with lower stylus tip mass, higher compliance and wider frequency response. The Stereohedron stylus is a modified stereo version of the Quadrahedron stylus. The XSV/4000 plays all stereo and mono records with consummate ease, which certainly speaks well for the Stereohedron stylus principle. The Stereohedron has a large bearing surface which is distributed over a large portion of the modulated groove, and at the stated optimum tracking force of 1.2 grams, the actual force per unit area is, of course, much less and should significantly contribute to the longevity of recordings.

I really love Pickering and Stanton top models, but there are some other great MM or MI on the market, it will take too much time to post about all of them again. Read and search audiogon. Send me direct message if you need help.


P.S. Once you get an MC you’re hooked, when the stylus is worn you can’t replace it yourself, you must send your MC to the manufacturer or to someone else. The manufacturer will charge over 60% of the full retail price again.

If you want to hear something very different you don’t have to change from one cartridge to another with the same manufacturer, you can always try something very different (another cartridge like MM versus MC). User replaceable stylus is great option (available only for MM/MI).