Same watts at 8 and 4 ohms?


I'm in the market for an integrated amp and trying to sort through tech specs. My understanding of the tech aspects of hi-fi gear is limited. Looking for some clarity in regard to watts-per-channel specs.

It is my understanding that wpc at 4 ohms is typically 1.5x -2x the wpc at 8 ohms.

But I'm seeing a number of respectable mid-fi integrateds with the same wpc for both 8 and 4 ohms. The NAD 388 is one and I think this is true for several of the Cambridge Audio units at a similar price point ($1500-$2000).

The NAD features make a point of saying " 4-ohm stable for use with a wide range of speakers". 

Would appreciate any insight to what these specs mean and what 4 ohm stable really means to me. My speakers are 4 ohm speakers.

Thanks,

George
n80
Have you looked at the Rogue Sphinx v3?
Have you checked out Vincent integrated models?

90 is above average; 4 dropping to 3 is a bit below average.

Poorly engineered amps will be uncomfortable with that impedance.

If you deal with Crutchfield, Audio Advisor, Music Direct, and no doubt others, you'll have a generous audition period.


Thanks djones51. I should also mention that these will rarely if ever be used at high volumes and in fact I would put more of a premium on low volume listening in this room.
I have an NAD C316BEE down at my cabin and it sounds really good for the price. That Guttenberg guys says the 316 is his 'reference' budget amp for whatever that is worth.
Anyway, I guess it may just come down to trial and error, order and return but I do hope to narrow it down to two or three.
I don't think the Cambridge has a DAC, which I am looking for. The NAD does have a DAC.

I might start with the NAD. Also considering a Peachtree Audio Nova300 and remote possibility of a used Gato DIA 250. Some reservations about the Gato in that it is well over my preferred budget and I wonder about the possibility of service if needed.


I think that what Ralph is saying is that doubling power into 4 ohms is only necessary if you drive the amp to its full output. 

If your amp puts out 150 watts into 8 ohms and 200 into 4 ohms, it will drive your speakers just fine if you only need 100 watts into the 4 ohm frequencies to drive them as loud as you want to listen to them.

Is that right, @atmasphere ?

Playing your speakers (and most speakers) with 100 watts into 4 ohms would be really loud.  I think any of the amps you're looking at will drive your speakers satisfactorily.  So, as Ralph said, try to listen to the amps and pick the one that sounds the best to you.


n80 But I’m seeing a number of respectable mid-fi integrateds with the same wpc for both 8 and 4 ohms.
Severely current limited either on purpose for damage protection (maybe by autoformer) and/or by bad design, these amps are not ideal to have with 4ohm nominal or less speakers
Because 4ohm nominal speakers can go down even lower than 4ohms, maybe 2ohm, and even lower again as seen by the amp if there is >-50 negative phase angle involved at those low impedance’s.
Good place to learn, study Stereophiles speaker bench testing, usually the first 3 or so paragraphs with graphs will give you far better insight than just words do here.

Classic example is the 90db efficient Wilson Alexia, which is manufacturer spec’d at 4ohm nominal, yet tests show it goes down to 1.6ohm in the bass and has some -45 degrees phase angle which they say calculates to and presents as 0.9ohm! EPDR (equivalent peak dissipation resistance) as seen by the amp in that bass area.

This is heavy reading 3 pages, so skip it if you want.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/heavy-load-how-loudspeakers-torture-amplifiers-page-2


If watts is all that matters with no current ability, we all own these 3000w $400 Class-D Behringers, and we wouldn’t need an "Amplifier" forum section in Audiogon
https://www.storedj.com.au/behringer-nx3000-ultra-lightweight-3000w-class-d-power-amplifier

These 25w yess!! just 25w ML2 Mark Levinson monoblocks would slay the 3000w Behringer into the Wilson Alexia’s to a given level.
https://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/05/504/50446/c.jpg
https://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/2229202-mark-levinson-ml2.jpg


Cheers George
You guys are teaching me a lot but not making it any easier.


I'm just waiting for the magic word on the perfect $2000 integrated to match with a pair of $6000 speakers.  ;-)

@twoleftears I think those have been recommended but I can't remember if I have checked them out. But I will.

@tomcy6 These speakers will rarely be played at more than 50% volume if that.

@georgehifi I have a Levinson, well, Madrigal, dual monaural amp for my Aerial 7Bs and it is huge and heavy. No way the wife is going to allow a pair of monoblocks in there. She can't wait for me to get the Classe' and the Bryston out.