Cartridge Opinions - Sorry

@cd318,

Now I’m more confused? Or is it more enlightened?

I have a vintage Pioneer PL-630 Quartz PLL Electronic Full Automatic turntable that is in mint condition and has a fantastic tonearm. 

What I have noticed about this particular table is it is designed with the idea of the turntable as a complete system to complement each part and function of the table to act as one combined unit for a more precise performance.  

No aftermarket tonearm needed nor wanted here.

Also what I forgot to realize is that different engineers attack a design in all matter of different ways to find ways for optimum performance.

I shouldn’t be surprised at this realization as I have worked in engineering all my life and have constantly had to ’revise’ engineering drawings as I am a draftsman. You can spout all the 'white papers' and studies you want. I have to find out for myself.

And another thing, a headshell is NOT a tonearm, last time I checked. Although that could change, at any time....

And is it also fair to see a boom as similar to the functions of a tone arm since it has also inside of the boom wires that carry the music’s electric signal from the mic to the recording magnetic tape?

Right  here is where the analogy falls apart. A mic boom is simply holding the mic in the right location, but in that regard is rigid and does not have to articulate. It doesn't need much in the way of adjustments and they come in different sizes depending on application. Certainly no worries about things like effective mass, mechanical resonance 7-12Hz or the like.


I've been doing consumer electronics service since the day after I graduated from high school back in the 1970s. One time a customer came in the shop and actually wanted a magnetic cartridge installed in his VM turntable. Now some of you here might know what those are, obviously others here do not. I had to explain to him that the idea simply wouldn't work- that if he wanted that cartridge because it sounds better and would be better to his records, he was going to need a tonearm that could do the job. A VM turntable is designed for a ceramic cartridge that tracks a bit heavier than any magnetic cartridge- 5-7 grams is common. The VM arms have no provision for setting overhang, and barely anything for setting tracking weight. Now I don't know how far to push this, but it should be obvious to anyone in audio that working with an arm like that, you're simply not going to get the best out of any magnetic cartridge! Its a given.

So starting from there, we all know that correct overhang is critical to getting the sound right, so is the tracking pressure and VTA. And yet there are 'high end' tonearms that have no VTA provision; by the argument I'm seeing presented here, the conclusion we see this heading to is that VTA does not matter to any cartridge (Raul indirectly made this argument). Obviously that is false! Now having worked with a lot of arms and having built my own, I know that the arm tube resonance is a thing, even though there's no adjustment for it. It can make a big difference as to how the arm plays the mids and highs. So in any potential arm I'm looking at, I expect the arm tube to be damped in some way. A good number I see are not. Now if you can hear what that does, are we going to ignore that and just say that makes no difference whatsoever?? Most audiophiles I know don't mind a bit spending the time to set up their cartridge correctly; I am really failing to see how the cartridge can eclipse the arm in this. All my experience points to the contrary, and in spades.

Right here is where the analogy falls apart. A mic boom is simply holding the mic in the right location, but in that regard is rigid and does not have to articulate. It doesn’t need much in the way of adjustments and they come in different sizes depending on application. Certainly no worries about things like effective mass, mechanical resonance 7-12Hz or the like.

Ralph,

I agree more with you than not. As I have done all the tweaking to my Pioneer table arm as it has every tonearm adjustment you can think of. You know how I know? Because it is APITA!

And you certainly have taught me some things and know far more about audio engineering than I do.

And here comes the but.

But doesn’t all the magic happen in the (LIVE) recording venue of the studio? The position, location and placements of (booms) mics, musicians, room sound treatments, the experience level of a competent recording engineer ect?

Am I wrong to notice not only the science of a recording but the ART form as well? I think there is a bit more that goes INTO a recording than what you say above.

And if you look at pictures of the Kind of Blue session, they do show articulating booms with multiple joints. Remember this was at the house of Columbia Records.

To this day when I hear a Rudy Van Gelder engineered album that is a great pressing, I’m still blown away at his technique.That’s all I’m saying.

And you know what’s really confusing? There’s just as many arguments from audiophiles with some of the best systems known to man and they swear by only using a headshell alignment tool and their ears!

Ralph, thanks again for taking the time to teach, us all.

Firstly, i want to say that I still agree with Ralph 100%. The arm is more important than the cartridge. IME, that is a FACT.
Secondly, tyrays analogy to the boom and microphone is a false analogy when it comes to tonearm and cartridge, like Ralph alluded to above. 
When i have been in a recording studio as a pro studio player, not once did I see the boom moving around any type of axis to follow what the mic was doing (Yikes). The boom had to remain in place, and in fact the goal was for it to be as stationary and stable as possible. Sure there are numerous other pieces of gear in play while the recording is going on, so what? This analogy is false.
Lastly, I have to say that I also think that Raul likes to argue for the sake of arguing, I have never once seen him admit that he could possibly be in error! The snippet that cd318 posted from the Origin Live website says a lot, even though I'm sure Raul will dispute that also!!! 

daveyf,

I have a question for you. And this is not for arguments sake. I'm just curious.

When a blank piece of vinyl is cut at the factory, in your opinion which is more important. The cartridge/stylus making the grooves or the tone arm?

Thanks