Cartridge Opinions - Sorry

But doesn’t all the magic happen in the (LIVE) recording venue of the studio? The position, location and placements of (booms) mics, musicians, room sound treatments, the experience level of a competent recording engineer ect?

Am I wrong to notice not only the science of a recording but the ART form as well? I think there is a bit more that goes INTO a recording than what you say above.

I agree with this 100%! But it really isn't anything relevant to this debate.

When a blank piece of vinyl is cut at the factory, in your opinion which is more important. The cartridge/stylus making the grooves or the tone arm?

There really isn't an arm- and you don't cut vinyl- you cut a lacquer. My Westerex 3D is as good an example as any, as a cutter head its a mechanical transducer built into an articulated mount- but its one assembly- I don't know of a setup that allows a different transducer in the mechanism- they can't be seperated. There isn't an arm because the mount drives the cutter across the lacquer with a worm drive. My cutter deals with warp (which had better be pretty minuscule in a lacquer) using a device called a 'track ball' which allows me to set the groove depth. So this really doesn't hold up in this debate either.

It's important to get setup right but don't get too obsessive. There will always be the odd opera torture track that will give most arm/cart combos hiccups.

There had better not be! I've yet to run into such a track- my system breezes through everything effortlessly.

I would have to say that I disagree with this. There is a huge difference between my Benz Micro and my Koetsu Onyx. On well engineered recordings, it’s not really close. There is an audible difference between them and my Koetsu Rosewood Signature.

Now, I suppose you could say that I don’t have the Benz "set up" properly.

I have a Sumiko MMT arm in a VPI HW MK IV table. Do those components allow for the adjustments needed to "set up" properly, which in my 40 years of experience has simply meant to use that protractor-looking thingy and follow the instructions of each manufacturer, then fiddle until it sounds the best that I can make them?

@unreceivedogma I've owned the MMT; its a tricky arm to get the adjustments right. And yes, its a good bet that something was off with the Benz; it could simply be that it had a compliance value that in tandem with its weight and the resulting mechanical resonance, it simply was not going to be able to strut its stuff where the Koetsu did. If you're dealing with that, you can set the tracking pressure and VTA till the cows come home and the cartridge still won't track right!


The problem we're dealing with here is that the groove is ***microscopic***, so tiny adjustments have an enormous effect on how the cartridge makes distortion. By 'tiny' I do mean at or near microscopic. Most arms simply do not have the necessary provisions to do this right- you can get the basic stuff like tracking pressure and maybe even overhang, but the nuances are where this really makes a difference. Look up above in my post here- I've quoted someone who has come to accept that some records 'will give most arm/cart combos hiccups.' This might be the case- but its a good sign also that something is amiss- and the most likely culprit is the arm not the cartridge unless the cartridge is actually damaged or its suspension is shot. I can list a good number of arm issues that can cause mistracking, and it really doesn't matter which cartridge you have.

IOW, if the arm isn't doing its job, expect mistracking. Obviously the converse is also true, if the arm ***is*** doing its job, then the cartridge will track effortlessly. When its effortless, that is when you will find that the cartridge (as long as its in good condition) plays a far less significant role in this.

@rauliruegas,

Yes, you’re right the  Linn K9, like the Linn Basik was made by Audio Technica, rebadged with a subsequent price hike.
I think Rega did something similarly naughty with one of their MM cartridges.

The K9 was the one with the superglue trick. Sorry for any confusion. I later replaced it with the one that featured the Allen screw, the Linn K18.

There’s an image of it here where you can see how the Allen screw is supposed to hold it together better.

https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=18115.0

Amazingly the Linn K18 also appears to be based upon the Audio Technica AT 95E!



@atmasphere,

It’s important to get setup right but don’t get too obsessive. There will always be the odd opera torture track that will give most arm/cart combos hiccups.

’There had better not be! I’ve yet to run into such a track- my system breezes through everything effortlessly.’


Impressive stuff!

I remember experienced reviewers writing that Carmina Burana was one such ’torture track’.

Me, I used to get slight jitters playing the sole Maria Callas LP in my collection at decent volumes on my LP12.

Would it still track ok? Was the volume too high, or too low? Would the speakers cope, etc? Fabulous for testing dynamics and system headroom though.

Thanks again for sharing your considerable knowledge with us.

@rauliruegas  You posted this:  " Problem is that that gentleman is really a " roockie " in that specific issue but he think as his followers is an expert and is far away from there., like it or not all of them unfortunatelly(sic)  are wrong."  Firstly, it is rookie and not roockie. The gentleman you are referring to has not responded to the comment, but I think it is very insulting of you to state such a comment! Are you such an 'expert' in analog reproduction that you believe that a long standing manufacturer and hobbyist warrants this kind of reply? If I am one of his followers, perhaps that is because I have been in this hobby for many decades and happen to know that his points are 100% correct when it comes to this aspect.OTOH, I'm no expert, certainly not like you seem to think you are!!!!! 

Dear @atmasphere : " its a tricky arm to get the adjustments right. "

why is that?, I can’t remember to have any single trouble to set up many of the cartridges I owned with.

" that something was off with the Benz; it could simply be that it had a compliance value that in tandem with its weight and the resulting mechanical resonance, it simply was not going to be able to strut its stuff where the Koetsu did..""

Way wrong. Almost any of the Benz Micro are spot on with the MMT inside the ideal frequency resonance range and the Koetsu is out of that ideal range ! ! !.

R.

@daveyf  : In that specific regards it's and is what his posts showed. It does not matters that he is a " long standding manufacturer " that has no truly relationship with the subject here.

He can be an expert in what he manufacture and this is not under discussion.

Btw, "  Are you such an 'expert' in analog reproduction .. "". I never said that and the subject issue here is about the importance in tonearm and cartridge and nothing more. I gave many facts that are the foundation of my non-expert opinion and your and his arguments showed nothing about.

Which the problem, no one is expert in all and each audio subjects and certainly you and he are not in the thread issue. Again, at least what you showed here but he showed too in other thread about tonearms too.

The people that like to speak a lot like him will tend a higher probability to make mistakes and he is talking and talking. His last post is an example of those.

R.