Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
128x128jafant
Is the Straight Wire used by Thiel of Kentucky 18 guage solid wire  
or is it straned  ?


Rob - Thiel's wire was developed in the late 70s through our contact with an aerospace avionics engineer (cousin Ted). For many reasons we settled on OFHC polished solid copper in teflon jackets with a tight 3/inch) twist. Wire carries competing parameters, but that configuration does more right and less wrong than most other options - and we landed there.

In developing the CS7 / 6 (after my time) Jim reportedly revisited wire and kept the original configuration, although the 5-9s aerospace ware was no longer available. Best of form is CDA101 @  There are differing opinions, and I am looking closely at options. There is justification for not going to thicker gauges in the lower frequencies due to varying skin effects. Also, many of his networks see a series  coil as the first element and it might present hundreds of feet of wire and were rarely larger than 18 gauge, sometimes smaller, which would make larger wire meaningless. My present study suggests that larger gauge coils in some of those elements would be desirable - because there is more going on in wire than plain resistance. 99.99%, etc. Ours is slow extraction, high polish, etc. Straightwire supplied that from the mid 80s to the end.

I am moving toward star quad for noise suppression. Tweeter is double twisted (star quad) 18 gauge as described here before. Midrange might be the same unless I insert a 16 gauge foil coil in the first midrange element, then it will be star quad 16s. Woofer might end up being star quad 14. But that's unsettled and dependent of crossover variables. But all remain solid, not stranded, and that opinion is well corroborated in the technical field.

Anyone who says that only the big three: resistance, capacitance and inductance matter just hasn't looked deeply enough.

As a historical aside, I've mentioned here before that I did some work with John Dunlavy when he was moving to Colorado from Down Under. John's specialty and multiple patents were in the field of antennae, especially deep space low signal communications antennae. He played his cards pretty close to the vest, but he paid extensive attention to wire and wire routing within his speakers with knowledge of propagation interference and conjugation. I wish I knew a fraction of what that guy knew; but I am asking more questions in that realm than Jim did. And I hope to (dare I say expect to) reap some benefits.
Tom

Thank you for the in depth lesson , for me this has turned into learning 
 and experimental experience .
I am considering taking Cardas 18 gauge solid wire that is enamel coated to prevent oxidation and using a cotton sleeve and twisting them with 3 turns per inch .
Since these speakers came with 16 gauge stranded wire no turns
( 28 strands 30 gauge ), I've not experienced original Thiel wiring ,
but then again all 2.7s didn't follow Jims limit on capacitor size .

Have you tried using the same solid 18 guage wire in your star configuration for speaker wires ? or using them in the parallel ? 

Rob
tomthiel

Thank You for the in depth history lesson, once again.
You will cetainly reap benefits from all of your (XO)  work.

Happy Listening!
JA - So much to learn, so little time.
Rob - Your 2.7 wire was a New Thiel addition or experiment. They hired first-rate designers and engineers, so I trust it was very well considered and chosen. Their failure was at the executive, not technical level. We here did a parallel vs twisted exploration and seemed to all prefer the parallel, including myself. I can’t go down that route because I lack the knowledge to crack the code. I know enough to know that there are many factors including radio frequency interference and capacitive coupling with stray fields that are much more problematic with parallel runs and solved by twisted runs. Note that your stranded wire quite likely has the the stranding twisted to minimize coupling. So it would be a hybrid, quite different than parallel runs of solid wire.

Regarding your Cardas wire - that sounds optimum to me. All insulations, including Thiel’s teflon, introduce dielectric effects. Varnish is considered optimum. Also cotton and other cellulitic fibers are considered optimum - better than any of the plastics including teflon. AntiCables has built a respected product around varnish only. Morrow uses varnished strands in cotton. I find both those produces very satisfying. I don’t personally know Cardas’ results, but they have a very good reputation and I say he’s on an optimum path with what you describe.

The Cardas wire you describe could be ganged ie single pair for tweeter (or double for star quad), and ganged as double or triple for the other drivers. Need can be predicted via crossover analysis of the relative current capacity of the network - gauge of series inductors and parallel paths to ground. I would be glad to offer an opinion via PM.