Jazz for aficionados

Wynton Marsalis is a Johnny come lately who was never able to do anything with a blank sheet of music paper as far as jazz is concerned, and Frogman has been trying since day one to say that everyone including maybe Martians had something to do with American jazz.

Real "modern" jazz is music that came from the inner sanctum of the Black urban inner cities. It is the musical expression of complex emotions that can only be expressed musically.

There is the possibility that some of these emotions have only been felt by descendent's of slaves and consequently can not be comprehended by others, not even those who went to "Julee Yard".

The best example of a jazz musician that creates music which expresses complex emotions that are commonly felt by descendant's of slaves is "Bobby Timmons"

Alex,

Actually, in my 45 years as a professional musician, Rok is the only person (O-10, sometimes, not so much other times) that I have ever encountered that so adamantly contests what is universally accepted as how Jazz came to be; a melting pot of cultural/ethnic influences expressed in music. Wynton is far from being the first person to state what he did in that video; his ideas are anything but novel. Jazz musicians have been talking about these things for decades and there is a tremendous amount of musicological opinion written that explains, analyzes and supports what Wynton says. All this is also readily available on line. Also, and perhaps you’ve missed it, but this issue has been the subject of debate and contention here many times since the very beginning of this thread. And you’re correct, why would Wynton put his reputation in jeopardy? He wouldn’t.

Re “ideology”:

I used the word, not Rok. You assumed incorrectly that my use of the word “ideology” refers to politics. You also assumed incorrectly that my political views differ from Rok’s; I share his views in many respects. I don’t know what all that the word “politics” means to you, but this is my definition of “ideology” for the purpose of this discussion (from the dictionary):

“- ideology: the science of ideas; the study of their origin and nature.”

It could certainly refer to politics, but not necessarily and not what I was alluding to when I used the word. The irony in all this is that it is all easily demonstrable. What Wynton did in his explanations is only the tip of the iceberg of all that can be demonstrated. The problem is that to understand it one has to be able to speak the language of music at least on a rudimentary level; or, at least be open minded about understanding basic principles.

Sadly, and as demonstrated just above, some simply don’t know what they are talking about. Case in point:

**** It is the musical expression of complex emotions that can only be expressed musically. ****

Sounds good, insightful, in a way; but, mistaken due to its needless exclusivity. Tell that to a great poet, or painter, or sculptor, or writer, or film maker, or...

Wynton and the Interview:

The whole thing was a setup.   It happens all the time.   Of course The Frogman knows this better than any of us.

Lets set the stage.
You have, on stage,  the most important person in the world of Jazz today.  The leader of the Nation's Jazz band.  One of the most talented and the most  knowledgeable person in Jazz.   From a family considered Jazz Royalty, and from New Orleans, the birthplace of the music.  With him, is another person from New Orleans, and surely a future star in the music, a young guy, and  band leader of a National late night TV  house band.. 

The audience is full of Jazz enthusiasts.   This is Jazz heaven, they must have thought.

Soooooo, what do we talk about?   I know I have a billion questions.

What did they actually talk about?   How many of you guessed, "The Irish Influence on Jazz"?   Not any hands showing.

The moderator was grinning so broadly, you could count all his teeth.  

We have all seen this movie before.   It is pervasive in sports and entertainment in the U.S.   Esp where black folks are involved.

Cheers

Note to OP.   Black people in the U.S. are a lot more than "descendants of Slaves".   With that attitude, they will still be stuck in the inner city, 5000 years from now.

Rok, it doesn't matter whether one thinks, or does not think of one's ancestry, it is what it is.

I should think that the inner city is a lot better than the cotton fields of Texas or Mississippi.

Obfuscation by way of a torrent of irrelevant data and presumptions.

Isn’t it interesting how sometimes a person hears only what they want to hear. An interview over one hour long with one passing reference (with interesting factual example) to an Irish rhythm that crept into the melting pot and all of a sudden that becomes “(all that) they talk about”.

Maybe you were correct after all, Alex. For at least one party it is about politics.