My pet peeve: "revealing" speakers

There seem to be two extremes w.r.t room interactions.
One extreme would be the Bose "direct/reflecting" strategy, which deliberately exploits room interactions.  Another is the magneplanar/electrostatic strategy, which typically aims for a more focused sound that minimizes room interactions. 

Yet, a very nearly flat frequency response curve (with relative absence of room colorations) doesn't necessarily tell us much about how well the speakers reveal subtle details, nor about how well they respond in the time domain.  My Totem speakers, as measured using REW, show a fairly impressive frequency response.  Yet when I apply various filters using HQ Player, I hear little if any difference.  Could be my ears, of course ... or perhaps my gear isn't sufficiently "revealing".  

At any rate, I'd expect a "revealing" system to make subtle details audible at normal listening levels, in addition to having a nearly flat frequency response, with little blurring/smearing due to phase and timing issues.

So, instruments and vocals sound natural and realistic;
the soundstage/image is believable;
subtle details are neither masked nor exaggerated.
Still, a system can sound quite good even if isn't very "revealing" in all these respects.  

newbee -

IMO the easiest way to get ’revealing’ components, including speakers, is to reduce output in the lower mid range which effectively reveals more information in the mid range, or in many instances increasing the output in the upper mid range/lower highs which gives the appearance of better, more extended highs. Both of these can create a sense of increased soundstage, especially depth of image.

mahgister -

I want speakers that gives me the impression of a musical sound living presence, timbre+imaging...And "living" is not colored, nor neutral, it is a living interval between these 2....

dazzlingmd -

My current speakers are far more revealing and unforgiving, to where Gaucho sounds fantastic (better than through my old speakers) and All the World’s a Stage sounds dramatically worse in comparison. The speakers are better at revealing recording/mixing/pressing flaws, which is a double-edged sword, as it showcases the greatness of great recordings but also the issues with poor ones.
I’m not sure how reviewers use the term, but that’s how I’ve understood it.

As an employee for a very focused bespoke loudspeaker manufacturer (who’s actually not particularly wealthy, or high profile other than in his local circles) I know well a story of my employer who was approached by Australia’s Federal Government to build them a pair of speakers.

He delivered the pair of commissioned speakers, and a panel of reviewers reported back, the Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage were the only speakers at the time that could touch them (yes it was some years ago). Yes it could be argued that the Sonus Fabers were off the shelf, and my boss’s speakers were built to best whatever they could, and wasn’t a stock sale item. Like comparing a sports car to a street car someone has heavily modified, tuned for a specific task.

After reading the reports that the Sonus Fabers had something in the sound they projected that made them just sound right, my employer flew down to Canberra, borrowed the Guarneri Homages and listened, and changed his crossover, and listened again, and tweaked throughout the weekend.
He probably didn’t get much sleep, and was in a hotel room, so probably didn’t make friends with the rooms beside him either.

newbee - you’re clever, so anyway, he could hear the interaction with the room gain, and after working out what he was hearing, he called the tuning he uses PRC. He had learnt something from the Italian designer about room gain, and what is does to the overall sound.
mahgister - the voicing of the speaker for a particular sized environment is also a form of embedding, even without room treatment. It’s not just the measurement of the frequency response coming out of the loudspeaker, it’s an understanding of a good average fit for a general room size for the loudspeaker.

dazzlingmd - absolutely bang on. A truly revealing loudspeaker, or an unveiled loudspeaker will with a high degree of fidelity, does resolve what is being fed into it. Correctly designed there will be no restrictive points in delivering the appropriate frequencies and levels of energy to whatever electro mechanical device actually voices the reproduced music.

It is indeed a two edged sword, on a well toned, fit woman a catsuit looks astonishing, a catsuit is much less flattering on someone very much out of shape, where a less revealing outfit is far more flattering. The room, the electronics, the recording, is very much more pronounced and unveiled, by a highly resolving loudspeaker (whatever type it is) and it can be more or less flattering or very much not so.

As for what measurements matter, consideration to how all of the above interact with each other, that’s a lot of measurements that all matter simultaneously.

Yes, you can all consider me an opinionated geezer, I just seem to share a lot of opinions of others in here :-P

I learn a lot in here too.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/tas/261/editorial.htm

Short article but right for me....Thanks rodman....
I never own a system so resolving tough, even rightly embed....

There exist a scale of hi-fi quality for sure....

My system tough gives me a hint of what he described, then it must be rightfully embed indeed:

« In fact, higher resolution renders greater tonal saturation, warmth, and instrumental body by virtue of revealing the timbral micro-structure, which only contributes to a sense of realism and life. Instrumental textures simply sound more like the real thing when the system accurately portrays the instrument's harmonic and dynamic structure in all its finely textured glory. Unfortunately, it's these low-level signal components that are the most fragile and easiest to lose. Resolution is shaved off in every stage of the chain, from tonearm resonances, to electronics, to the mechanical structures in transducers. »

To the mechanical embedding he speak about, i will add the electrical embedding and the powerful acoustical one....

 

mahgister - the voicing of the speaker for a particular sized environment is also a form of embedding, even without room treatment. It’s not just the measurement of the frequency response coming out of the loudspeaker, it’s an understanding of a good average fit for a general room size for the loudspeaker.

For sure you are right rick....This come with the "generic" final design of the speakers....

The room, the electronics, the recording, is very much more pronounced and unveiled, by a highly resolving loudspeaker (whatever type it is) and it can be more or less flattering or very much not so.

This is my experience....

But my system being good is not at the highest design top quality in the market....Like most of us....

My sound is"living" in this interval between the highest resolution and some coloration coming from all the parts and even from my room...I lives well with this imperfection, and i call that "living" sound....This is the most many of us can wait for with their actual audio system....Totally resolving system in a perfect room is out of the purse of most....It is a theoretical concept rarely manifested  with an audio system...In real life we listen to "living" sound, never perfectly resolving one...And in any normal audio system, we listen to some aspect of a recording slightly more than to some other aspects... There is a slight unbalance like in real life... Except for very high end speakers in a designed room, with a low noise floor level and no mechanical  vibrations uncontrolled... 

In my many experiments in listenings what i listened to was this INTERLINK between the recording, the electronics, the electrical grid, the mechanical grid, and the acoustic of my room...In my experiments in listenings  i play with device that will improve this interlink.... We cannot change the quality of the basic electronic  we own.... Only make it able to reach his potential....

No embedding will gives to someone the sound quality of a top level component with a low level one....

But The embedding of an audio system rightfully done gives more sometimes than most of the so called upgrade....

Of all the speakers I’ve read about the ones I would like to listen to are the Dutch and Dutch 8c. Not sure if they are " revealing " but they have been touted as neutral. If revealing is colored then not for me I want as flat a FR and neutral as possible. The Harman curve suits me just fine.