like with most stuff, there are some inexpensive products that sound very good, some expensive ones that do not sound very good, but unfortunately the best sounding ones tend to cost a lot...
What makes a DAC so expensive?
You can buy a Cambridge Audio AXA25 25 Watt 2-Channel Integrated Stereo Amplifier | 3.5mm Input, USB Input for $225, and most DACs seem more costly.
I'm wondering what it is that makes a Bifrost 2 almost as expensive as an Aegir and 3x's as expensive as the Cambridge product, above. I would have thought an Aegir would out-expense a Bifrost by a factor of two or three. What are the parts that make the difference?
I'm wondering if the isolated DAC concept is one that comes with a "luxury" tax affixed. Can anyone explain what I'm getting in a Bifrost 2, or other similar product that justifies the expense...?
Thank you.
I'm wondering what it is that makes a Bifrost 2 almost as expensive as an Aegir and 3x's as expensive as the Cambridge product, above. I would have thought an Aegir would out-expense a Bifrost by a factor of two or three. What are the parts that make the difference?
I'm wondering if the isolated DAC concept is one that comes with a "luxury" tax affixed. Can anyone explain what I'm getting in a Bifrost 2, or other similar product that justifies the expense...?
Thank you.
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djones51 Very few if any could pick a $700 DAC from a $10000 DAC in a blind listening test.Have you conducted any such tests to confirm your inkling? If so, please tell us about them. |
So, I took a peak at the innards of two DACs, one of which was referred to, above. I looked into the PS Audio directstream DAC, which costs $6000, and then the Denafrips Ares ii is about $1000.00. This is where a trained eye is really needed, because I can only say the parts count and appearance look somewhat similar. This does bring to mind some questions... The assertion that DACs are priced at what the market will bear needs further discussion. I don't think a manufacturer simply ponders what people might willing to pay for the piece, setting the price at that level. There is the question of time invested (research, parts acquisition, assembly, etc...), parts used, and equations that compare the product to other products on the market, and marketing costs. Perhaps this is what is meant, or what is hidden in the notion of "bearing." Marketing itself can be a huge piece of the cost of an item, amounting to as much as 50% of product cost, from what I have heard. This is where word-of-mouth marketing becomes an interesting facet of the cost, perhaps revealing why so many people are responding to products from Schiit and others, who don't appear to be going to great lengths to make their products look flashy and unique, nor do they do much advertising compared to, say, Klipsch. Also, we all know that aesthetics or claiming a particular "expensive part" may be less for performance and more for enticement/marketing purposes. The latter statement calls for scrutiny, which is to say: I'm impressed when someone can even list things like:
I do understand there is a role for power conditioning and power management in these devices. In my recent study of an unusual offering from an Indian company called ALLO, I noticed that their Revolution DAC, which comes in around $300, emphasized short signal path and the DAC portion of the unit was very small - very small, but a large part of the unit was reserved for power conditioning; or, at least that's what I think I saw. Maybe someone can look it up and tell me what they see, as I'm sure a more thoughtful breakdown of parts would be of great use to many fairly ordinary folk, who enjoy learning about these things. In a hobby where (some) people seem to be forever boasting simplicity, short signal paths, and the like, I guess I'm needing a little more information about the important features of a quality DAC. I mean, I was attracted to the phrase, "amorphous core chokes" and "Mundorf 4 pole caps" and I find that there is always some kind of rhetorical element to the presentation of these devices, but what truly counts??? Maybe I need to start a new thread: what are the important features of a DAC that operates transparently, only sending on the "music" and other recorded "environmental factors" from the recorded digital signal... |
Amazing! I jumped from here into a search for the Denafrips Ares ii and found the following statement in a review on Amazon: "I did a direct A/B comparison between the Ares II and a PS Audio DirectStream DAC. The DirectStream as I had it configured costs $6,899. Granted the DirectStream has more features. However, when comparing sound quality, I would say the the Ares II was almost as good as the DirectStream. Maybe 90-95% of the DirectStream. Without me going back and forth I would not have been able to tell any difference - they're that close (listening on KEF LS50 speakers). The PS Audio DirectStream seemed to have a tiny bit more detail." What does this imply about parts? Marketing? The market bearing... |
@listening99 denafrips is one of several companies that make superb sounding dacs at reasonable prices - as you mention, their ares 2 entry level model priced at a small fraction of top tier dacs in the 5 grand and up range - dena is a chinese firm, selling consumer direct, bypassing the dealer network and its 80-100% margin, so there is that value conveyed to the end user for sure that being said, as you mention as well, the ps audio DS is programmable, can be updated via software downloads, can have a streamer/dac appended via an internal board, so there is future proofing and great flexibility that denafrips does not provide - furthermore you can only buy the denafrips units from a retailer in singapore (seriously!), if there is a problem with the unit you need to scramble for help... so there is value in other elements than pure SQ now, also, note the denafrips makes the terminator, a 4-5 grand dac, and now they are also introducing a terminator plus, a 7-8 grand dac, all based on the same basic architecture so within just one maker’s line you have choice... is the term and term plus 4-5-6-7-8 times better sounding than the ares 2? no way... but there IS a difference in SQ no doubt... however subtle it may be the notion of diminishing returns in SQ from spending $ in audio reproduction has been around as long as the industry... savvy users learn the shape of the curve in each part of the chain, and each of us pick our point on the curve based on desire for performance and size of wallet |
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