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Does the first reflection point actually matter??

Hello my friends,

So please read the whole post before commenting. The question is nuanced.

First, as you probably know I’m a huge fan of the well treated room, and a fan boy of GIK acoustics as a result, so what I am _not_ arguing is against proper room treatment. I remember many years ago, perhaps in Audio magazine (dating myself?) the concept of treating the first reflection points came up, and it seems really logical, and quickly adopted. Mirrors, flashlights and lasers and paying the neighbor’s kid (because we don’t have real friends) to come and hold them while marking the wall became common.

However!! In my experience, I have not actually been able to tell the difference between panels on and off that first reflection point. Of course, I can hear the difference between panels and not, but after all these years, I want to ask if any of you personally know that the first reflection point really matters more than other similar locations. Were we scammed? By knowing I mean, did you experiment? Did you find it the night and day difference that was uttered, or was it a subtle thing, and if those panels were moved 6" off, would you hear it?


Best,


Erik
erik_squires
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio
1,019 posts
 

I remember picking on Harry when he came up with his flashlight theory. He said to me "oh well it’s published".

Guys, sound is pressure. Some of the people in audio seriously need a hobby lol.

mg

mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,592 posts
 
Very good observation...

« Sound is a plant more like an animal» -Groucho Marx

«Optic is ecology» -Harpo Marx 
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,592 posts
 
Few people know that Goethe make his point against Newton in color theory....While Newton search for a theoretical mathematical corpuscules light theory, Goethe described for the first times in history the way of colors to comes from light and dark in the world in relation to physiology....Goethe was a colossus of intelligence but in too much fields for the average people to understand him really....And to this day, Goethe reflexions seems not to go to a dead end, like a corpuscule theory of light and colors... Edwin Land was a Goethe disciple for example.... :).

In acoustic there is something similar....And Michael Green put it right by noting that sound is also pressure, not an abstract mathematical wave only, but a living wave....
asvjerry's avatar
asvjerry
5,003 posts
 
We exist in a universe of waves...beginning with the subatomic, density and type variants all....

It just 'thins out' the further off we rise from what we percieve as solid ground.

And we're just another version of it, making waves of our own.

"What state do you live in?"  Quantum....

"Zip code?"  (Hand over a thumb drive...)

J'accuse:  The number of things agreed upon = the number not.
The universe is subject to the Bell Curve as much as we 'average out' in our HO about what we hear, how we hear it, and how we feel (or don't) about it ....

Flies in the fluxes of universal ambers...in the midst of all the other waves...the daily surf...

Not terribly sci about it, but it makes for my day. *S*
optimize
164 posts
 
I were thinking about..
If we ONLY look at the side walls reflections.
Then the first reflection points that the sound bouncing off.

My thoughts goes like this:
First reflection point is weaker (lower dB) than the direct. And what reflects of that surface is probably more higher frequencies than lower ones (Hz). 

That side point will act as a muted bass shy speaker that is delayed as it were placed further away..

Can this side walls reflection points contribute to a wider sound stage?
Or some other benefits that can be a argument to not treat side walls reflections?

(And of course the our experiences will vary greatly when we have all different distances from the speaker to the side wall in our unique rooms. So I would like to know what distance is used when we tell about our experience.)

A experience I have (sidewalls 80 cm away) it is like that helps or make it possible to hear sounds/instruments somewhere between the speaker and the first reflection point.. so extreme right or left will be beyond the speaker. Yes now when I think about it the sound stage is then wider.. 

But it is unintended wider and nothing the artist/producer were aiming for. And when first reflection point reflect a uncontrolled frequency response/range depending on what type of surface the effect will be more or less pronounced depending on the different frequency range different instruments has..

So I think I have answered my own question somewhat.. but how are your thoughts on this?
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