Does the first reflection point actually matter??

@audiokinesis

Thanks Duke. Your feedback is ALWAYS appreciated. As you know I seriously took the room into consideration when make the speaker decision, turning down several planars /dipoles that i was really interested in. The Harbeths, 3 feet out from the front wall and almost 7 feet from the side walls, with their large front baffle seemed to be the best choice and quite frankly they sound absolutely amazing, BUT Foley tells me the Harbeth midrange and the speaker overall will sound like a different speaker altogether to the extreme.

Soooo... now I’m deciding on putting 1200 lbs of treatment in our main living room but save multiple x $$$$ on the cost of a wedding next June since my fiancee will surely leave me. Not an easy one indeed. 🤔

5. Tame from "40 cycles - 7000 cycles" as he calls it with eight (8) carbon panel CPs at $750 per panel. And since each panel weighs 150lbs, its about $1,000 for shipping. So all in $7,000.

@aj523

This is why I always recommend GIK acoustics. Very effective products at reasonable prices. I don’t know of any of them that weigh 150 lbs either. :)

As an alternative, consider the GIK panels with soffit traps, which are cheaper, lighter weight, and also go down to low frequencies. They also do free room consultation.

Truthfully, you may NOT need any bass treatment, so panels that go down to 40 Hz may be serious overkill. Tame the mid/treble range, and this may re-balance your room well enough. If that doesn't make your speakers sound larger and more powerful, then pull out the bass traps (GIK soffit). 

Also, might want to try using excess toe-in. Have the tweeter line cross in front of your head. This may sufficiently improve reflections off the sides. Of course, heavy curtains would also help.



Best,

E

3. No need to buy software to measure the room since the problems are obvious and better spent on product.

What? I am not considering my self as a measurement guy. But that is the just so wrong on so many planes.
It is like saying don't give someone else money but instead give it to me.
On the other hand not many buy the software when it is free.. on the third hand you need only buy a calibrated microphone that cost peanuts (65-100 USD). 
You need to learn to use the software or get someone that can.

Nobody trust me nobody can hear what you are able to find out by measuring. (You have never heard someone say "Oh that room has a 10 dB big dip at 53 Hz" for example. But measurement will show you exactly that and much more)
You can determine what effect after that you got after putting 7000 $ into your room

1. You should see on your measurements that your decay times is considerably lower over the whole frequency band.
2. Less amount of peaks and dips

How do you quantify that the sound after you spent 7000 HAS got better? Are you and Foly sitting in your sofa and subjectivity nodding to each other and saying "yes it sounds better.."

It is like emperor new clothes nobody dear to say something negative..

Plus he knows that if you don't do a measurement then you will not after the treatment say to him "Look there is still a 10 dB gain at 100 Hz (for example) after the treatment as it were before..

Plus he knows that if you get the gear and make measurements with the free software that you are halfway to be able to make a active correction.. you need "only" to take that measurement and export and then import to the DSP for it to correct your room..

To push you into that direction is only loose loose for him. When you can make demands on how much improvements you should and would expect..

But yes I am also of that opinion that we should fix the room with room treatment as far we can do THEN using active DSP.

But you NEED to measure to have and to get a baseline..
Measuring is knowing! 

(On a personal plan I think you will destroy that beautiful space. With all of those windows there is not much space to put all the stuff.. and making that project very hard from a esthetic point of view.)

I love measurements. I spend my day job measuring things. I have 3 calibrated microphones right next to me, and yet, when it comes to the question of:

"How do you help the average audiophile?"

I have really come to be against measurements. I worry that those advocating for measurement software for acoustics and sub configuration (including me in the past) forget just how difficult calibrating a room is.

People think of this software like you are buying a spell checker. You just high light all the red words and check the spelling. They are nothing like that.

For this reason I’ve totally turned around. Now I advise others to find trusted acoustics consultants to help with the room, and good room correction to integrate a sub.

It may seem hypocritical, since I would never do either... but then, I have spent a lifetime learning about what I’m doing and would rather tweak it myself. If a new audiophile shows up and wants to get to done, I don’t recommend my path.

I don't want to ever discourage anyone from learning, I enjoy learning and applying tools, speakers and room acoustics a great deal, but how do I serve the audiophile asking for advice best?  That's the question I have wrestled with a great deal, and no longer answer like I used to.

Now, an audiophile who wants to learn how to make speakers, or is really interested in acoustics, of course to them I answer differently.

My point is, I don't think tools and software serve everyone the same way, and I think we should be more adaptive at least.


Best,

E

Thx @erik_squires and @optimize

The GIK 242s are rated from 250, and the 244s from 80. He specifically wanted to match the 35hz +/- 3db point of the Harbeth for smoother results and he thinks bass is the biggest issue in the room. But the investment is significant and the aesthetics are not great for a room that’s not a dedicated listening room. They come on rollers so the 150lb panels can be wheeled around. In the pics you can see a big plant to the left of the left speaker and a velvet sitting chair to the right of the right speaker - he said both of those have got to go! Lol. As the speakers must have unencumbered space in and around them.