What makes a DAC so expensive?


You can buy a Cambridge Audio AXA25 25 Watt 2-Channel Integrated Stereo Amplifier | 3.5mm Input, USB Input for $225, and most DACs seem more costly. 

I'm wondering what it is that makes a Bifrost 2 almost as expensive as an Aegir and 3x's as expensive as the Cambridge product, above. I would have thought an Aegir would out-expense a Bifrost by a factor of two or three. What are the parts that make the difference? 

I'm wondering if the isolated DAC concept is one that comes with a "luxury" tax affixed. Can anyone explain what I'm getting in a Bifrost 2, or other similar product that justifies the expense...?

Thank you.
listening99
@ovinewar and @cal3713 

What (we) faced in here was a discussion thread I had begun that soon turned into an assault on one person's character, not so much their point-of-view, a point-of-view that wasn't asserted with any sort of bellicose tone. Maybe you could infer some head scratching or undertones of disgruntlement in the framing of the viewpoint of the person who was subsequently attacked. In fact, the attack messages went beyond attacking the person to name-calling, using words like "objectivist" in a context that blurred the line between the person that was initially attacked and my own efforts to study the workings and relevance of DACs. 

For instance, people have made a huge deal about jitter, and I noted that one business has been selling a reclocking device at great expense, from my viewpoint, at $8000 dollars. The latest Schiit DAC, the Modius, is claimed to have extremely low jitter, so what are we looking at in this apparently budget friendly DAC? It sounds like it kills off the reclock giant at this level of application. Hell, maybe the Modius would sound amazing, plugged into a $50,000.00 system. I'd like to see if someone has the guts to try it, because I think it takes serious courage to examine one's attachment to money-results, at all levels, and so it may well be that you or I were caught at a price point, unawares. Unawares that the purchased product ultimately performed much the same as something at a vastly lower price point, etc.

The response I received offered no input into my interest in studying DACs, but was fixated on the idea that the motives of my thought were tied up in impulses "chintzy." It was a lovely moment, one outside of any precedent or standard for quality service in the face-to-face world of business in a high-fidelity audio store of the kind I frequented regularly until the pandemic.

To be more clear: I've never had a salesman, reviewer, nor a fellow hobbyist accuse me of being "chintzy," and I know the person who lobbed the stone is in the business, although in this instance he has taken up a role that has nothing to do with good business practices, good service, etiquette, etc.

So, I'm on track with the question of how we relate to one another, herein. Those attempting to deal with people that make all or nothing claims are advised to keep their focus on issues, on their experience, on the reasoning, on the available data, on the knowledge base that is available for these products, their interactions, their limitations, etc.

Treating rudeness, or limited points-of-view with rudeness creates and magnifies the very problem of disagreeable moments in the forum.

The sense was that two or three people entered the space, continuing a line of attack started elsewhere, appearing oblivious to the new thread,  context, and people, myself among them. 

I am all for discussing the character of interaction that best serves useful discussion.
  • Politeness is high on my list. 
  • Civility is high on my list. 
  • Etiquette is high on my list.
  • Learning about all of this stuff is high on my list
If a person takes an approach that seems to favor one perspective In opposition to all others, this can be highlighted quite easily. It just takes a little patience, which pairs well with all of the bulleted items listed...
Jitter isn't a problem for well designed DACs.  Take the little Schiit Modius at $199 on the USB input, even for all the talk about problems with USB, Jitter comes in at -150 dB much better than it's toslink and coax inputs  where it hovers around -120dB. Of course none of this is audible. It just shows how far engineers have come if a company can produce a DAC in the US for $199 with the measurements this little DAC has. 
@djones51 Have you paid attention to the new Denafrips GAIA DDC unit that recently came out. From a connectivity stand point it would be very convenient for me. A single Sonore microRendu connected to a GAIA which is then connected to a multiple DACs which as connected to separate preamp inputs. That is the convenience part for someone that is looking to get a few DACs into the system. I wonder about the claims of sonic improvements.

I have the Benchmark DAC3B. Looking to add the Audio Mirror Tubadour SE, and maybe something else if I win a lottery. Any opinions on the GAIA?
There are many assumptions or assertions buried in the original question and several replies. First, the DAC chip is a small part of the cost of a DAC, and in the case of the R2R Schiits, know that they had to do a bunch of custom work to use those AD DACs since they are designed for instrumentation and therefore glitch. Engineering is expensive.

next, for those who think most high end is just marked up a lot - reality check. This industry sucks financially. yep, manufacturers can charge what the market will bear, but the market won't bear much. Why? Lots of people want to be in the business and try their hand at design. When supply rises, prices and markups fall. That’s the invisible hand at work. Want to make money? get into something like cement. Nobody finds it romantic.

The cost of almost any piece of electronic gear (speakers, aka furniture are similar but different at the same time) is driven by, in rough order:

  • The chassis
  • The transformer(s)
  • The jacks and other switchgear/hardware
  • The box you ship it in
  • Warranty costs, made worse if one wishes to accommodate user error, which is common. Sometimes user error seems mandatory.
  • The custom PCBs, especially if large
  • And then a few bucks for the various electronic components, even when quality stuff is being used
Engineering costs must be amortize over small numbers.

R&D is a slower and more prototype-intensive process than most since measurements only take you so far in high end.

An aside, I’m beginning my DAC journey. I have three very early prototypes running. All use very different DAC chipsets. And yet, i have managed to make them sound fairly similar with the characteristics i always strive for. Lesson: the DAC is not the determining factor. Not saying I’m happy with any of these designs - they are are early days. I'm only saying that different chips wind up sounding the same when similar engineering recipes are applies to them.

In DACs you will find (or ought to!) multiple power supplies, and lots of money spend to contain and reduce noise - ground noise, radiated noise, reconstruction noise, blah, blah. Costly clocks and multiple series timing circuits. Isolation efforts between stages. A few dollars her and there add up.
G
Don't really know anything about it. Looks like it could be handy for 1 input to multiple DACs.