2. amps-preamps
  3. 159881-46

Woofer pumping possibly due to tube amp when playing vinyl

I am moving this issue  to this forum because of what I discovered this weekend.

I’ve been trying to figure out why I have woofer pumping when I play vinyl, and for the last two weeks I’ve been messing with my vinyl rig trying to figure out what is causing the issue.  The woofer pumping seems to be more prevalent with the vertical up-and-down movements of the tonearm regardless of which turntable is being played. It appears it happens more at the outer edge of the record then the inner grooves.  I assume this is because record is more warped at the outer edges. The woofer pumping happens even in quite passages, so it’s not noise induced vibration affecting the turntable. 

 I have used two different turntables to try to figure this out, one is a pioneer PL 530, and the other is a VPI prime. both with different carts. Also, I have verified that all the carts being used on these turntables work well together with their respective arms.

However, it is not the turntable or cartridges. 

Things I can say for certain, it is not the turntable because I switched turntables with different cartridges to confirm this, and I still get the woofer pumping.  It is not a phono preamp because I’ve switched several phono preamp‘s, solid state and tube, and I still get the woofer pumping. It appears it is the tube amp that may be at cause. It’s the only component left of the chain. 
I have a Audio Research  Classic 60 amp. I got the amp used but it came with a new set of power tubes I don’t recall if I changed the four smaller driver tubes,  I also change the four large capacitors to new capacitors and biased the amp. 
The interesting thing is, with the TT’s I tried, it is the right channel that pumps more than the left channel, regardless of the variety of different cartridges tried, all aligned with AS Smartractor.

To be certain it was limited to vinyl playback, I plugged in a CD player and I do not get the woofer pumping at all. So I have a couple theories (1) the TT is just transferring subsonic frequencies from the records, ALL records I play do this.  Please remember, this is from the two different turntables being used, one a VPI prime belt driven, and the other a pioneer PL 510 Direct DrIve,  or (2) there’s some weird thing going on at the amp that I cannot explain. 
My question is, if there is something going on with the amp could it be a tube issue, or capacitor issue, or a biasing issue.  If so what is the most likely culprit.  Or I guess something else altogether. 
In the end I’m rather tired of chasing this ghost, and I would rather not use a subsonic filter if possible. If I do have to use a subsonic filter I want the most transparent one if such a thing exists. I’ve heard mixed results about the KAB unit. 
last_lemming
last_lemming OP
639 posts
 
Thanks for your input guys. 
I just tried the mono switch on the preamp and it did somewhat reduce the pumping. About 30% less excursion as a best guess. 
I did relocate to a concrete floor to a completely different part of the room no avail.  
last_lemming OP
639 posts
 
I can also tell you the clamp isn’t the solution. I’ve got the VPI clamp that is dished on the underside and comes with a washer, but unless your clamp goes all the way to the edge of the lead in grooves, It ain’t gonna flatten those slight rises (Bumps) in some records right at the edge  I don’t care if you tighten it down with the force of Superman, it won’t flatten those types. 
A perimeter ring would help but they are pricey and kinda look like a PIA to use. But maybe that’s better than using a subsonic filter. 
If I thought there wouldn’t be a degradation in sound I’d use one. But anything that I’ve ever added to the chain that claims no degradation always does. 
ditusa's avatar
ditusa
1,887 posts
 
@ last_lemming, I agree the clamp is not the solution. But i did not say it was. That was post #3 that said it was the (clamp.) I said the subsonic filter might help. I do not know if a perimeter ring will work. I do hope you find a solution. Mike. :-)
ronribbons
23 posts
 
I got the Kab filter yesterday and ran it through the Loop in/out on my amp.  Woofers stopped pumping and bass cleaned up from sub.   I haven't had a chance to fully demo it but I'm definitely keeping it. You can enjoy your vinyl collection for $180 while you spend the next few months and who knows how much money finding a better solution, and then just sell the Kab filter on e-bay when you do.  
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,841 posts
 
All my carts I have tried fall within the correct EM range.
Some of the carts are suggested by VPI themselves.
This gets tricky- even cartridges suggested by the manufacturer of the arm may not be ideal. This can be because the actual performance of the cartridge (in this case, the compliance value) might actually be considerably different than the spec on paper, the latter of which the manufacturer may have used to make a recommendation without actually having used it.

That is why trying a cartridge with a lower compliance value is a good test of this hypothesis.
More to discover