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IMHO (and friend's) opinion of acrylic platter

Hello all...

In my quest to tweak my system for a better possible sound...  

I have gone through the latest item for review, inspection and opinion. I picked up an acrylic platter for my Dual 1219 with a Grado Platinum 1.  

Going in, I was highly skeptical and my skepticism was aligned with a myriad of opinions out their on the net. Such as snake oil, yes, no and every variable opinion possible wedged within.  A discussion happens...yet, not quite like when someone asks about "cables".

I set out to give the best subjective platform for the "test".  I called in a friend of 38 years...who is a musician who is gifted with perfect pitch...and not saddled with tinnitus, like me. He is also a luthier as as well...who knows, on a retail, musical and technical level, the best sound possible...and what to listen for...and how.

I set the volume at a reasonable level, placed him in the sweet spot 'tween the speakers...me to his left. I sought  an album we were both very familiar with...one of the most sonically perfect and best produced albums ever... Steely Dan's "Aja".

We started without the platter for "Black Cow".  We sitting respectfully poised, solemn, quiet and with bowed heads carefully and methodically listened and took in as much musical and sonic information our minds and ears could handle.

When done...I asked him to step away...not wanting his to see what I was going to do...I placed the acrylic platter on...and set every up as before.

I started it again.  5 seconds in...we both had an opinion...and we needed to vocalize it... YES...there was a difference and we agreed there was a bit more bass and it was a bit more defined. We listened through the second spinning (with platter) pass at "Black Cow"...and we agreed there WAS indeed a difference.

So...trying to give the situation the best chance to prove us wrong...I sent him away again...removed the platter...ands ran through "Black Cow" a third time.  A scientific  "A-B-A" test.  At he end of the third spin...we were confirmed...  I showed him what the "change" consisted of...and he was very surprised. 

Yes...the platter did administer a subtle, yet still distinct change to the sound.  I didn't want to believe it...but I could not reasonably disagree with what I heard; neither could my friend.

On a technical level...I cannot explain it... Perhaps it was the materials in the platter that affected the relationship between the cartridge, platter, album...with resonance or rumble...wow/flutter?  I dunno.  Or...since the album is sitting 3mm higher, perhaps it has something to do with the VTA setting...making the stylus' relationship with the groove different...or...more like the VTA when the album was originally "cut" on the "master".

I would enjoy responses...

What a hobby!!

Thank you!

Sincerely,

vinylspin
vinylspin
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cleeds
6,060 posts
 
mijostyn
(VTA) does slightly change azimuth. Not as much as SRA and perhaps even overhang(depends on the original position of the arm) but as the arm elevates the stylus starts tilting towards the spindle.
Yes, your turntable and arm may do that. I’d consider that an unacceptable defect.

I can assure you that on every turntable/pickup arm combination I’ve ever owned, azimuth has been completely independent of VTA. As you may know, azimuth can be measured, so it’s silly to dispute it.

If your azimuth is changing with VTA, you must suffer a lot of distortion unless you go to great lengths to flatten even slightly warped records. And even then, it’s an unnecessary compromise, imo, but of course it’s fine if you can live with it.
We agree whole heartedly on unipivot and linear tracking arms(except the Schroder LT and Reed 5T)
Have you ever actually heard the Schroder or Reed arms? I haven’t, but these types of "solutions" usually suffer another Achilles heel, such as friction or lack of rigidity.
mglik
913 posts
 
After trying a Puresound Tenuto gunmetal mat and a Ringmat, I have found the best available mat-an acrylic mat by Oracle. It is unlike other acrylic mats being high mass and other factors. The vital importance of a good mat was stressed by Ralph Karsten who recommended it. It costs $200 but is totally worth it. It can be ordered by calling Oracle in Canada. Among many, many improvements, I was stunned by the now near complete silence in the run in groves, in between and runout. The improvements with the Oracle are nothing less than stunning! Highly recommended.
lewm
13,435 posts
 
Vinyl spin, can you remove the OEM rubber mat and just plop the acrylic mat on the bare metal surface of the platter? If so , try that.

With all respect, the 1019 is a fine vintage piece, but it was not meant for this sort of tweaking. It is simply not adjustable enough in its single play mode. If putting the acrylic mat directly on the metal platter does not work, I advise you to go back to the stock rubber mat and enjoy the turntable as is.
andrei_nz
192 posts
 
It would seem to me that to compensate for the fact that the album is now 3mm higher, I would consider utilizing the multi-record lever on the back that would literally raise the tone arm.

The way I would approach this to set your VTA de novo.  As for the platter, yes the materials do make a difference.  Everything has its own resonance.  It can also make a difference if it is heavier (or lighter).  By and large a heavier platter will improve inertia - the downsides being more weight on the bearing. And depending on the motor it may put some strain on that.
Another thing you can try (I have done this with many Technics platters) is to strip away the rubber on your metal platter.  Before you start hit your platter with a spoon and try to remember the sound (or record it).  Also weigh your platter.  This stripping is a difficult job.  But if you stick with it you will have bare metal.  Again for fun hit it again with a spoon.  It will ring even more.  This is why metal platters have to have damping.  Then with your platter upside down on a perfectly flat surface you pour in some epoxy - Gflex for choice.  Wait for this to harden.  What you will have left is the original platter with vastly better damping.  

Metal platters have to have the ringing addressed.  Replacement, Good Damping, or an Oyaide Butyl mat.  

vinylspin OP
24 posts
 
Hello...

Thank you all for your varied and detailed responses to my issues with my old Dual 1219.  It would seem that with my desires to move up the food chain sound-wise, I have exceeded the old turntable's abilities.  The 50 year old technology just isn't up to the challenge of  meeting and fitfully answering all of the 21st century's type of adjustments needed.  The good news is that because of the powerful and thorough resurgence of vinyl over the last decade, the modern turntable has been technologically brought up to speed.

Thank you lewm for the kind, respectful and gentle way of suggesting that the old Dual 1219 has already lived its best days.  Back in the day it was indeed state-of-the-art...but now...sadly if I want to sally forth...I simply need to carefully box it up and put her in the garage.

I have been looking at the Flaunce RT 85...but, I do not want the cartridge it is equipped with out of the box...the Ortofon Blue.  I want to move into the AT VM 760 SLC.  I might go with an Audio Technica turntable...the  "Audio-Technica AT-LPW40".  I dunno...maybe the  "Consumer AT-LP140XP".  I new thing to ponder...

I also know that a short future is in store for my '83 Yamaha seperates...M-7- and C-70. they're tired too. but, that  particular swap is another day...

Like I have said...what a hobby!

Again...thanks to all for your words and attention to detail...greatly appreciated.

as always...thanks for reading...

vinylspin
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