Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

sounds_real_audio:
" The " swarm" is actually and old term that was used to convince music lovers who were not happy with the sound of their system, in particular  the midrange which was so lacking in most speakers. To deflect away from that they, the manufactures, focused on the bass, which as most of us know or should realize by now is so difficult to reproduce in a three way box without screwing up the overall sound. So now the swarm is a way of placating our type A male designer to have gut wrenching bass from a speaker. A conspiracy yes. Has it convinced anyone, yes it has. Does it make your system sound better, well perhaps, the bass may improve but you will still not have that rich and satisfying midrange which is where the music is."
   
 Hello sra,
     While we're awaiting your expected response to Duke's post requesting clarification, I just wanted to interject a few comments of my own, regarding your statements in your most recent post from 9/22, all based on my personal experiences utilizing a 4-sub DBA system (the AK Debra complete kit system) in combination with a pair of Magnepan 3.7i main speakers.  
     The word "swarm" itself has likely been around, probably 1st in some ancient semitic form, about as long as humans developed language and continued to absentmindedly stumble across hives. The 1st time I recall encountering the word swarm, in reference to subs, was in 2015 when I read the Absolute Sound review of the Audio Kinesis Swarm distributed bass array (DBA) system linked to below:
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system/
     
     In this context, Duke's recollection of selecting the word "Swarm" in 2006, to descriptively name his new four-piece distributed multi-sub system, seems to me to be the most sensible and logical origins of the term "swarm" in regards to sub usage, due to individuals subsequently and likely using the term "Swarm" to refer to the AK product specifically and the term"swarm" to refer to all four-piece distributed multi-sub systems in general.
     While I will take your word for it that it's very difficult to reproduce the bass in a three way box without screwing up the overall sound, even if a designer did manage to launch pristinely accurate bass, midrange and treble sound waves into a room from his ideal speaker creation, there's a high likelihood that these pristinely accurate sound waves will not be perceived as pristinely accurate bass, midrange and treble performance at the listening position due to two main factors:

1. The bass frequency sound waves are very long, have omnidirectional radiation patterns and behave very differently in any given room than the much shorter midrange and treble sound waves that have highly directional radiation patterns.
2. The bass, midrange and treble drivers are permanently attached in set positions in a typical three way box speaker cabinet and are incapable of being independently and separately positioned in the room, and in relation to the listening position, to optimize the perception of the complete audio spectrum along with good stereo imaging.

     I believe most individuals position their main speakers in the room, and in relation to the listening position, in order to optimize their perception of midrange and treble performance as well as stereo imaging performance. Due to factor#2 above, however, bass performance is typically unable to also be optimized and, as a result, individuals need to settle for compromized bass performance.
      In my opinion. the resolution of this non-optimization of bass performance at the listening position is the main justification for the intelligent positioning and configuration of one or more subs in the system and room. 
      I believe a single sub is capable of achieving good bass perception performance at a single designated listening position but the addition of more subs makes this achievement not only progressively easier, based on my knowledge and personal experience, but also progressively better in quality; better bass power, dynamics, speed, smoothness, detail and integration with the main speakers. 
     I perceive the bass performance of my current Audio Kinesis Debra 4-sub DBA system as being near state of the art.  It's definitely the best sub bass system I've used to date in my room and system, however, I don't claim it's the absolute best bass system because I'm fairly certain a custom 4-sub DBA system, consisting of larger and even higher quality subs (either self-amplified or passive driven by a separate high quality sub amp and active crossover network), would significantly outperform it.
      Of course, this type of custom 4-sub DBA would also be significantly more expensive than a $3,000 AK Swarm or Debra complete 4-sub DBA kit.  I've also never auditioned a properly positioned and configured multi-sub line bass array (LBA?) or a multi-open baffle sub line or distributed bass array system which could possibly outperform the AK DBAs.

Tim

To those who are critical of the use of one sub over several, or none, I had 2 Vandy 2wqs in my 11 x 16 room, and I like the sound much better with one. Anyway, once you add all the gear, a wall of records, bookcases, and a computer desk, there isn't a lot room for sub placement either. So one works just fine. 

While I hesitate to add to this "hornet's nest" of a discussion, I will say this.  I've been an audio hobbyist since the mid-60s when I put together my first stereo system building Dynakits.  That included reading Audio, Stereo Review, and High Fidelity, popular print magazines of the day.  I don't recall seeing the term "swarm" relating to anything in audio until I read Duke's site decades later.  And then, while applying the term, he credited the concept to design engineer Earl Geddes.

There was another insect-related application of the word more than 20 years ago in San Diego.  There someone started an informal car club called "The Yellow Swarm".  That invited owners of yellow cars to meet up for weekend tours, all makes welcome from Fiats to Ferraris.

But unfortunately here things have gone far off track from answering the OP's original question of why there has not been broader adoption of the Swarm concept?  That answer seems obvious.  General consumer interest (not the dedicated few) has diminished for multi-channel and large speaker set ups.  Even shoe box size is too large.  Tiny cubes and even wireless seems to be in demand.  It's no wonder that two main speakers and four subs are not of interest except for the dedicated few.  ;^)

It’s no wonder that two main speakers and four subs are not of interest except for the dedicated few. ;^)

I just bought an M&K sub for my bedroom system. I found it on craigslist for $150.00 which seemed fine to me and it works well. But its nearly three times the size of one of Duke’s Swarm subs. One of my rules of the bedroom system is that it be entirely on the cheap but if I were to be using the Swarm in there it would actually be easier. This is because my room has plenty of places to place Duke’s subs as they are meant to be against the wall, and they can go places I can’t put that M&K.


Its a matter of time; what we are seeing here is that the science is well ahead of the tradition, and tradition is a rather slow-moving beast. But if a thinking person sees that tradition is that way solely out of tradition, they will instantly see the advantages that the science offers. This is really demonstrated in spades with the Swarm.

Hello paulburnett,

     I have no doubt a single sub can provide good bass response performance and integration with the main speakers, at a single designated listening seat, provided the single sub is precisely and optimally positioned in the room and in relation to the designated listening seat, the single sub is of sufficiently high quality, has the necessary three controls for level, crossover frequency and continuously variable phase and that all three controls are properly set. I know this with certainty because I’ve previously used a high quality single sub in my room and system with good results.
     My main intent of this post is to state with clarity for the benefit of readers of this thread, and not primarily for yourself, that based on my experience there are typically distinct advantages gained from utilizing 2 or more subs in most rooms.
     Two of the usual advantages perceived, beginning with the utilization of 2 subs, are more powerful and realistic bass power and bass dynamics. This is due to bass being cumulative in a room and doubling the subs not only increases the overall bass power and impact along with increased reserve power for realistic bass dynamics, it also improves the perceived quality and sense of ease of the bass since both subs are operating well below their limits and at low distortion. Other usual advantages perceived through the use of 2 or more subs are increased bass accuracy, smoothness, speed, detail and integration with the main speakers.
     I don’t completely understand why you didn’t perceive these usual bass performance advantages of utilizing 2 subs as opposed to a single sub in your room and system. However, I think it’s important to note that just because you were unable to perceive these typical performance advantages of utilizing multiple subs in your room and system, this has very little relevance in regards to whether others will be able to perceive these advantages in their rooms and systems. My belief is that many will perceive the advantages as obvious and significant. My suggestion is that those interested should try both a single and a pair of subs in their systems and decide for themselves.
     I do understand the more practical concerns of a smaller room, WAF and a lack of space for 2 or more subs. Based on my personal experience being able to accommodate 4 (1’x1’x28") subs in my 23’x16’ room, I no longer consider such concerns, that I also initially shared, as deal breakers. I think it’s more a matter of priorities, having the will for better bass performance and being sufficiently creative with room decor solutions.
     I can also state with certainty that it’s well worth the effort if you decide to give it a try and make it work.

Tim