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Just spoke to an old client of mine..........Avantgarde owner

This gentleman is unhappy with his Avantgarde Trio XD, because his current room is smaller, and he is hearing the discontinuity, between all of the drivers, from his listening seat. I have been stating this " phenomenon ", for as long as I can remember. It is why many designs, imo, are a poor choice, for the average sized listening room. Not just this, but my ears are very critical with designs, that have a conventional woofer, along with a horn, or panel type, midrange / tweeter. These designs are known as Hybrids. I hear this discontinuity, every time. As a horn guy, as much as I can enjoy some horn hybrids ( a simple and well executed design, such as the Altec 19, and yes, I owned a few pair and made mods to  several ), I find I cannot, long term, hear a convincing presentation. Bass, up to the crossover point, is so different, than the horn. This of course, is a very personal thing. I am a Klipsch guy, and love the KPT series, along with the Jubilee, but I have been involved in arguments with folks, who think I am crazy ( here, and on the Klipsch site ), about using speakers of this design, in a regular and average sized listening room, where the distance to me, is just TOO DAMN CLOSE. This Altec and the Klipsch designs I speak of, are of two different phenomenons.This is me, and I never attacked anyone who enjoys this type of set up, but I have been questioned ( even attacked ), by individuals, who seem clueless, to what my ears hear. Just wanted to put this out there, and will be presenting some discussions and experiences , I have had, and want others feedback. No right or wrong in this, as we all hear differently, want things differently, and so on, which I also stated, many times. Enjoy, be well and stay safe. Always, MrD.
mrdecibel
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,185 posts
 
The Cornwall’s do a fair job until you hear a real horn bass cabinet but they give up some low end. my Thiel 2.3 are awful in the near field but lovely farther out......

what model avant g ?
cd318
2,636 posts
 
My Tannoy Dual Concentrics are pretty coherent. It’s nice initially, as if something less is happening, but it’s funny how quick you get used to this effect. I guess the reverse wouldn’t be so easy.

Last year I heard some Monopulse active speakers and whilst far from perfect, they were so, so ridiculously easy to listen to even whilst playing back a stream from a laptop. Again, as if something overly busy but normally present was missing.

Their designer Allan Hendry has been on a mission to integrate driver coherence for decades.

Anyway, your friend must be suffering to have such fantastic speakers and not be able to enjoy them fully. I heard a pair some 15 years ago on the end of some exotic vinyl system playing a 1950s jazz recording and they remain the only pair of speakers I’ve heard that had that spooky imagery.

And yes, it was in a huge room. It had to be due to their sheer size. 
mrdecibel OP
3,175 posts
 
Jond, it is all about the right speaker, for the right room, and the marriage, between them, and the listener. Prof., nice speakers, both, especially for a short listening distance. My modified Lascalas do great, with near field as well. Toe in, as well as angling upwards, is paramount. But as always, Klipsch, or horns in general, are not for everyone. I do use powered subs, which took a week or so, to to get them dialed in, in this space. Audition Audio. I am with you. I have not yet heard a hybrid system, that totally eliminates this anomaly. Admittedly, as much as I have heard, I have not heard it all. Tomic, hey buddy, I mentioned it early in the post. Yea, I hear it, also, with the Cornwall, but have heard so much worse ( still running them in your garage ? ).cd318, he thought I would be interested in purchasing them ( I helped him with the purchase some years ago ).  Unfortunately, I do not have the proper size room for them. I think I could enjoy ( really enjoy ), immensely, the Volti Vittora, with a pair of his ELFs, and the Marchand electronics. I should contact Greg, and see what he can do for me. Concentric drivers, for sure, are coherent, in this respect. With my conversation with him, and my encouragement, I think my client is now, looking to move again, as he moved for a job relocation ( it is a rental home ). To all, thank you for all of your comments. Always, MrD.
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,185 posts
 
No the garage rockers have gone on to a fly rod building / guitar shop in the mountains w an 8 wpc Toolshed amp with the Basis table - sounds freakin fantastic 
audiokinesis
2,773 posts
 
Mr. D, ime the audible discontinuities you describe in hybrid speakers can have several different causes. Among them are:

1. If the angular spacing between the drivers is large, and in particular large relative to the wavelengths (which can happen with Avantgarde Trios at close range).

2. If the immediate acoustic environment around one of the drivers is significantly different, like if one of the drivers is subjected to a lot of very early reflections.

3. If there is a large arrival-time discrepancy, particularly in the midrange or treble regions.

4. If the off-axis response of the various drivers is significantly different, particularly in the crossover region(s), resulting in audibly different direct-to-reverberant sound ratios.

5. If there is a particular signature or coloration which is present in some of the drivers but not in others.

6. If the basic propagation characteristics are different, as when combining a line-source panel with a point-source woofer.

These sorts of issues are not necessarily inherent to hybrid speakers. The Dutch & Dutch 8c would be an example of a hybrid that doesn’t have any of them.

Duke
not at Dutch & Dutch dealer
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