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How do you know what you're missing?

Without listening to better systems than your own, how do you go about targeting what to improve? How do you know what is possible? It's a case of you don't know what you don't know. I get that indistinguishable from live is the definition of high fidelity, but I don't see that as a realistic aspiration without a dedicated built to spec room and a few orders of magnitude more expensive gear.

Reading reviews or forums can't possibly educate as well as demonstration. "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture," applies to the hardware as well as the media. I've isolated myself for many years prior to current circumstances. I can't remember the last time I actually went and listened to someone else's system. For that matter it's been years since I heard live music, too. (I don't count serenading the cat at home.)

Is it a case of you'll know it when you see it? Is this not a common problem? Or do you just not know it is a problem?
cat_doorman
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cleeds
5,943 posts
 
millercarbon
Everything in the following system has been bought based on reading reviews and comments ... the Moabs were bought exactly the way you seem to be so convinced cannot work. Clearly either I know something very, very important- or I’m the luckiest audiophile on the planet. Take your pick.
A third possibility may be the most likely: Confirmation Bias.
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mapman
22,179 posts
 
In any pursuit, not just hifi, you have to have a clear vision of the goal or call it the target before you can hit it.

If you are asking the question it sounds like you don’t know what the target is in which case one is shooting blindly.


So how to identify the target? Easy, you listen to a lot of things until you can identify “That sound” you want to hear. Both live music and recordings on good quality “reference systems” help. The more you listen the more your brain becomes trained to recognize that good sound when you hear it.


Then the question becomes how to get it in your room? That’s the other hard part.

But the key is to start with fundamentals. Speakers that will work well in your room, placing them properly for best sound, acquiring an amp capable of not just playing them but driving them to their max, a good quality preamp that matches output impedance well to the amp, and of course a good quality source (setting up a phono rig is a whole story in itself much harder than finding a good quality DAC for streaming).


Then from there you might find value in tweaking wires, cleaning up the power, shielding from external sources of noise, etc. YMMV here as well and the differences can range from distinct to none depending.


So bottom line is it takes time and effort to get things right. Hence the hobby.


There are shortcuts to take like buying integrated gear rather than doing it all yourself. For example modern integrated amps may provide a very good quality integrated streaming package these days. Then all you have to worry about is acquiring those right speakers and getting those set up well.



Fun 💰Fun ⏳ Fun!!
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jjss49
6,612 posts
 
good to see miller back to his old form  :)
cat_doorman OP
237 posts
 

I appreciate all the replies. Sounds like consensus is there isn’t a substitute for first hand experience. No one has come up with a gear emulator plug in like Pro Tools effects to take your favorite track and digitally alter it to replace your budget consumer receiver with the sound of a top of the line DAC/pre/power amp combo. Just for demo purposes of course. It’s an unrealistic proposition. Damn. I admit I was looking for a shortcut. 

“You can’t get what you want, ‘til you know what you want,” is a common theme for me. Maybe when the world is less scary I’ll venture out and hear something that changes everything, puts me on a definite track.

I haven’t been in a hi-fi shop in about 20 years. I guess I’m just not one of those ride the upgrade merry-go-round types - not that there’s anything wrong with that. They hear a lot more different gear than I have and have already learned their preferences. I envy them, but not enough to follow their example. Other than replacing a few CD players that I wore out (Adcom, Rotel, Ah!) I hadn’t done any upgrades until this past year. I now have an almost entirely new system and am planning next steps. I just want to avoid major pitfalls and am always looking for that thing I missed. Gotta watch your blind spots. We all doubt ourselves at times. Some of us more than others.

I still swap in my older gear from time to time to listen for differences. Maybe I’m a hoarder and I’ll end up with a house full of gear because I’ll never actually manage to get rid of anything. 

Currently looking at some room treatments. I figure that should help no matter what gear I use, and I can add to it incrementally.

Next I’m going move a few models up the Zu line while I’m still inside the 1yr 100% trade in period for my Omen DW. Very happy with them, but obviously moving further up the line will be more of whatever it is I like, right? I will still want to look at different types of speakers, but I need a reference pair. 

Then it will be time for a better pre-amp. I really only got into tubes for the first time this year and have been using a Schiit Saga+ and trying a few tube flavors. I like it better than using my old integrated as a pre. Must be something to that tube magic. I’ve even used it as a tube buffer into my integrated. That was surprisingly successful.

After that I’m not so sure. A better streamer, Class A SS amp, subwoofer(s), more tube rolling, power regenerator, R2R or other types of DAC, and cable upgrades are all possibilities. I may even venture down the vinyl rabbit hole though that will definitely require a demo. That’s far enough out time wise that I’ll need to see what’s out there and try not to be afraid to shop used or change my mind. 


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