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Does the first reflection point actually matter??

Hello my friends,

So please read the whole post before commenting. The question is nuanced.

First, as you probably know I’m a huge fan of the well treated room, and a fan boy of GIK acoustics as a result, so what I am _not_ arguing is against proper room treatment. I remember many years ago, perhaps in Audio magazine (dating myself?) the concept of treating the first reflection points came up, and it seems really logical, and quickly adopted. Mirrors, flashlights and lasers and paying the neighbor’s kid (because we don’t have real friends) to come and hold them while marking the wall became common.

However!! In my experience, I have not actually been able to tell the difference between panels on and off that first reflection point. Of course, I can hear the difference between panels and not, but after all these years, I want to ask if any of you personally know that the first reflection point really matters more than other similar locations. Were we scammed? By knowing I mean, did you experiment? Did you find it the night and day difference that was uttered, or was it a subtle thing, and if those panels were moved 6" off, would you hear it?


Best,


Erik
erik_squires
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
What a bunch of baloney.
Wait a minute. Wait just a doggone minute. The man clearly said:
"it is my experience that even then we hear not photonically but statistically." You call that baloney? Word salad, I say!

erik_squires OP
16,399 posts
 
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tobes's avatar
tobes
436 posts
 
Another observation is that low bass is radiating omnidirectional so those low frequencies are radiated behind the speakers. I see great corner bass absorbers. But there is also thin foam that will not help against that the bass is reflecting from those surfaces. Instead those foam will only take hi frequency reflections and also contribute towards "over-damped" feeling. Maybe remove or replace with thicker absorbers. 

I found some mid/high absorption behind the speakers to be beneficial, the corrugated foam is there for that. As you say, it won't provide any absorption at low frequencies. It's a balancing act though, too much absorption definitely kills the sound. I've tried diffusers in place of the absorbers in that position, but I prefer the mix of both.

When my house was built I had some input into the room dimensions, which follow one of Sepmeyers ratios to avoid stacking of bass modes. This seems to have alleviated the need for heavy bass trapping, I certainly don't have any obvious bass drone or boom.
It probably also helps that my ATC speakers are blessedly free of bass bloat. Though quite extended, the active SCM100 maintains iron fist control of the bass for a taut linear sound. 

Is those cool white 3d diffusers the "styrofoam" or other material? 
They are Vicoustic DC2 styrofoam diffusers. Lightweight and easy to hang with removable 3M velcro tabs.  
The diffusers can be applied more liberally than absorbers before detrimental effects on balance - but everything has its limit, so best to add any treatment in steps rather than slathering it everywhere.
snapsc
682 posts
 
This has been an interesting thread. I’ve got a buddy who has gone completely opposite.

14x15’ room with 10’ ceilings, hardwood on concrete, drywall... listening sofa backed up to the rear wall... subs in both front corners... speakers pulled out 6’ from the front wall and positions to take advantage of reflections to create a sound presentation that can best be described as total immersion.

Ok, maybe imaging is not the best and some songs can be a little bright but overall the sound is very lifelike and enjoyable.
tobes's avatar
tobes
436 posts
 
Yes, reflections can 'enhance' the sound - though unchecked they will play havoc with precise imaging/scaling and the individuality of recordings.
Some can't get enough of reflections - Amar Bose built a company on speakers leveraging enveloping reflected sound. Not for everyone though. 

I've certainly enjoyed previous systems in rooms without any acoustic treatment, though wouldn't go back to that now.
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