2. analog
  3. 160855-86984

vinyl versus digital redux

Has anyone compared the sound of vinyl with the sound of digital converted from a vinyl intermediary ?

I am referring to 'rips' of vinyl made with high end, high quality vinyl playback systems, with
conversion to high resolution digital.
I find it nearly impossible to distinguish the two results.
The digital rip of a vinyl record sounds identical...or very nearly so...to direct playback of the vinyl.

If one has 'experienced' the foregoing, one might question why digital made without the intermediary of vinyl sounds so different from vinyl.   A detective story ?

We are talking about vinyl made by ADC (analog to digital conversion) of an amplified microphone signal and re-conversion to analog for output to the record cutting lathe, or from analog tape recording of an amplified microphone signal, and then....as above...via ADCl and back to analog for output to the cutting lathe.

Of course vinyl can be and is 'cut' (pressings made from 'stamper' copies the 'master' cut in lacquer) without digital intermediary.  Such practice is apparently uncommon, and ?? identified as such by the 'label' (production)

Has anyone compared vinyl and high resolution digital (downloads) albums offered by the same 'label' of the same performance ?  Granted, digital versus vinyl difference should diminish with higher digital resolution.   Sound waves are sine waves....air waves do not 'travel' in digital bits.    A digital signal cannot be more than an approximation of a sine wave, but a closer approximation as potential digital resolution (equating to bit depth times sampling frequency) increases.

If vinyl and digital well made from vinyl intermediary sound almost identical, and If vinyl and digital not made via vinyl intermediary sound quite different, what is the source of this difference ? 

Could it reside....I'll skip the sound processing stages (including RIAA equalization)...in the electro-mechanical process imparting the signal to the vinyl groove ?

Is there analogy with speaker cone material and the need for a degree of self-damping ?
Were self-damping not to some extent desirable, would not all speaker cones, from tweeter to sub-woofer, be made of materials where stiffness to weight ratio was of sole importance ?

Thanks for any comments.
seventies
seventies OP
67 posts
 
Mijostyn,
Aha !, and thanks.
I assume we are 'on the same page', that transcription of an audio signal to vinyl imparts unique sonic quality, one that your high end system
duplicates by conversion of the vinyl 'signal' to high resolution digital.
So what in your opinion is the source of that quality ?

Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
6,026 posts
 
seventies
Sound waves are sine waves....air waves do not ’travel’ in digital bits. A digital signal cannot be more than an approximation of a sine wave, but a closer approximation as potential digital resolution (equating to bit depth times sampling frequency) increases.
This is a widely shared belief but it is a misnomer. Provided the signal is within bandwidth to satisfy Nyquist Theorem, the sine wave can be reproduced exactly.
Remember that Nyquist isn’t a theory - it’s a theorem.

If you can’t get your head around the math, this guy offers a pretty good visual demonstration.
mijostyn
My phono stage runs through an ADC into 24/192 digital to digital processor ... Conversion back and forth into and out of 24/192 digital is invisible (inaudible).
Like @mijostyn, I can make outstanding quality digital files from LP that I think are indistinguishable from the LP source. It requires good equipment and it’s a tedious process, but it’s do-able.


williewonka
3,082 posts
 
I’ve also made several digital 16/44 copies of vinyl albums. I keep it simple - each digital copy has two tracks Side A and Side B.
I do no need to have a digital recording of each track

On playback on my audio system I am unable to discern and difference between the the two sources.

My reason for doing this is so I can enjoy the digital version of the album in any other part of the house/garden on a streaming device and NOT have to setup a more elaborate solution.

I use a Behringer UCA222 - comes with Audacity software
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0A31

But you will need a pre-out (or tape out) on your amp

Regards - Steve
seventies OP
67 posts
 
willewonka and cleeds and others,
1. I am gratified to hear that audiophiles like yourselves with high end equipment cannot discern the difference between vinyl played 'directly' and vinyl converted to hi resolution digital....as has been my experience.
So why does vinyl sound different (I would say very different) from digital without intermediate conversion of a digital signal to vinyl ?
2. Regarding the Nyquist theorem, sampling at the 'Nyquist rate' can capture 100% of the information contained in a sine wave.
But we are talking about digital encoding of that signal, a very different matter.  With one-bit encoding, for example, DSD employs a sampling rate of 64 times the 'Nyquist' frequency, and on up to quadruple that number.
3. So why purchase a lp from, for example. Presto Classical (the British vendor) as opposed to a 24/192 version pf the same album ?
Why don't the 'labels' offer ultra  high end digital conversions of
those lp's....to DSD, DXD, your choice ?
I see huge savings in postage, storage space, and of course ease of playback.
So why ???
Regards to all, 'seventies'.
dgarretson
2,605 posts
 
The answer is that vinyl contains euphonious distortions and artifacts that are accurately captured and passed through a hi-res digital recording. I’m saying this as someone who records vinyl to DSD128, and generally prefers these recordings to HD Tracks hi-res digital downloads of the same material.

I do differ with others insofar as my DSD128 vinyl recordings do not quite equal the vinyl source played entirely in the analog domain. But they are close enough.
More to discover