Direct Drive vs. Idler Drive vs. Belt drive

@kps25sc

no; not done that. would guess that the CS Port, with it’s air bearing and air film, would go on for a while.

if/when i do it i will report.

don't expect that the Saskia idler would be good at that. as i recall Win said it has some designed in resistance in the bearing. those design subtleties are beyond me. i might have misunderstood.

congrats on the Maplenoll tt, not heard one myself but they are legends.

The CS Port looks like a much better built Maplenoll. Heavy plinth, air bearing, belt drive and integrated air LT arm. Most Maplenoll’s where badly finished, and the pumps where nightmares. High pressure pumps where made out of oil lubricated refrigerator pumps and would leave your listening room smelling like a machine shop. But like old American cars they can be modded into amazing performance, they are simple constructions that work well.

Is Maplenoll still in Business?
MikeL, It all comes down to the resonance frequency of the suspension if it is under 3 Hz both vertically and horizontally you are in business regardless of how you do it. Just mass is not enough. You can have footfall problems with the heaviest of turntables then there is the rumble problem. 
The only turntable with a true air bearing is the Kuzma Stabi XL DC Air.
Because the air bearing is impervious to load it also has what I think is the heaviest platter of any production turntable. The CS port uses air for the thrust bearing only. The rest of the bearing is the typical spindle like the Air Force Tables. 
The Saskia is interesting because unlike other idler drives it does not use a stepped pulley to control speed. The idler is fixed and the motor speed is changed. Neat. Otherwise it is another mass loaded turntable in need of a suspension. But as you say they are both quiet for you. They could be quieter. But there is a downside to suspending a whole turntable. The whole affair is going to be a bit...bouncy. This might be disturbing to some. I would love to compare a Sota Cosmos with a Schroder CB arm to all these tables. Because the bouncy part is internalized it is easy to use. With the suspension, the magnetic trust bearing and the Eclipse drive I do not think a turntable could get much quieter. The standard drive in the Sapphire and Nova is quite good. The Eclipse is more sophisticated and I am sure it is superior to many drives out there. I would not use the Road Runner as it is a servo mechanism while the Condor is a three phase oscillator controlled drive which will maintain it's speed under any normal circumstance like any synchronous motor. Is there a sonic difference between the Eclipse and the standard Sota drive? I seriously doubt it. Like I said before I would spend the $1K on a better cartridge or tonearm before I spent it on the Eclipse package.  

I think the last Maplenoll’s where made early 90’s, but Lloyd Walker basically copied the Ariadne when he made his original TT. The RoadRunner is a measuring system that can be used independently or together with the Condor, Eagle or Falcon. You can just monitor speed with the RoadRunner or connect to the motor controller and let it do adjustments according to speed variation. I have been told the eclipse package is a substantial upgrade to most AC synchronous TT’s. The more powerful motor combined with the lower vibrations because of the 3 phase controller, is a lifesaver for those pesky low weight small motor suspended turntables like SOTA. But you can not compare the sound to the sound of a heavy plinth, heavy platter air bearing TT with a high power motor, it’s a different ball game.

Dear @mikelavigne  : from several of your post before in this thread it's clear your " preference " for the Saskia/CSPort over the NVS and this is ( again. ) not under questioning in any way.

Exist something that in some ways " worry " me and I will try to explain about:

Wave Kinetics main works/business/knowledge is about  control vibration systems:

https://wavekinetics.com/#why

https://wavekinetics.com/vibration/

https://wavekinetics.com/the-truth/?doing_wp_cron=1603815532.3626220226287841796875

@jtinn is the owner and decided to design and manufacturer your NVS Reference TT because he is a music lover an an audiophile.

it's from there where comes:

https://wavekinetics.com/products/nvs-reference/

with out diminish in any way the Saskia/CSPort design and high quality levels in that excecution designs and what just does not makes " click " in my brain is what you, some way or the other posted several times,:

"  regarding the CS Port LFT1 it has considerable mass (both plinth and platter) and an air film suspension and air bearing (low flow, low pressure) all contributing to low noise.

the Saskia has a 180 pound plinth + 40 pound platter and built in suspension. all that mass in all the right places does help to make it easily the quietest idler i’ve heard. "

" low noise " and quietest ", DD motors not only are way quietes but with a very high signal to noise ratio as the 96dbs of the SP10MK3 or the over 100dbs figure in the latest Rockport Sirius you owned and the NVS is a DD drive motor and today motors are just excellent against any other design but additional to that WK has a deep knowledge levels in something that's way critical in any TT, TT platter and TT arm board named: VIBRATIONS, developed internal resonances and out side/external isolation.

In 2014 Tony posted about TT speed control::

"  I believe that listening is the final test in evaluating a system; but I also believe in
using measurement tools to reduce time and trials in getting to that final
listening test. I put a lot of stock into Dr. Feickert's iPhone app. Use it as a
relative tool. I think the frequency measurements are dead on because the app
uses the iPhone's internal clock. ""



Saskia goes for mass about as CSPort and nothing wrong with that the more expensive TT ( over 600K dollars. ) weigths around 300 kg and its specs are poor as the CSPort I don't know about the Saskia numbers and yes I know what other gentlemans will say: numbers are not important but but the quality of whaT we are listening but when we are talking of this kind of quality levels numbers(specs/ovjective is way important and at least at the same level of our subjective " feelings ".

I want to think that the Saskia/CSPort were designed taking in count ( as you said in one of your last posts. ) that platter weigth/material/bearing and the rigth motor torque for that.
In 2014 Tony posted on that matters:

""  The motor and platter are part of a system. Any one of the two out of balance results in poor performance  """

Saskia owner posted about:

"  I like high mass platters, but where the mass is located is critical, in my opinion. If properly done, the platter can be an extremely important component toward reaching the goal of optimal system inertia. "



We can ask: why Saskia over 200kg of " slate " and not a different build material or blend materials and why not 150Kg.? same for the CSPort. NVS is expert about it's his main work/knowledge. Again I'm not diminish the excellent work by Saskia/CSPort.

Mike, for a moment please forgeret of your preference about and take all those facts in your mind and tell me if makes sense to you.

Speed controller makes the difference for your preference? because that's what is in your whole words/posts.

You said too and this is the second time in the thread:

""  there are pressings where my active shelf takes the NVS to another level of precision. ""

If you can I would like to know what really means your statement and if you can mention recordings where you experienced that characteristic and I understand that even that you are not biased in the same way that with the other TT designs for the NVS.

And please sorry to disturb you again and again and thank's for your patience.


R:

Btw, you posted:

""  Therefore, fine vibration generated by servo control can not be measured by the measuring instrument, it depends on the human ear. ""

Everything can be measured today no matters what and in 2014 a gentleman posted about:

"" Richard, very easy to read with a frequency counter and test record with steady tone. In a fraction of a second I've seen servos change 30 hz when playing a 2150 hertz tone ""


Today tools and knowledge levels already improved over 2014.