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Millercarbon's Mega Vibration Control Journey

Vibration control is such a huge, and hugely important, topic it deserves a thread of its own. There was a time I thought it nuts to say such a thing. In fact I wrote a letter to the editor excoriating them for wasting my time on the goofy idea that clamping components between shelves could have any effect on sound at all, let alone be worth spending good money on a rack designed to do just that. This was the Michael Green rack, and thanks to my closed mind and dismissive attitude I never did bother to try and find out for myself if there was anything to it.  

Important Lesson Number One: Don't be so quick to dismiss things just because you can't understand how they could work. 

Couple years later unpacking a McCormack DNA1 amp the Owner's Manual says the included spike can be used to improve sound quality. Well now. As crazy as it still sounded this time its Steve McCormack, and he's already given me the spike, so what do I have to lose? Much to my surprise it did indeed improve the sound. Not a lot. But definitely more detail, clarity.  

This is very early 1990's. There is no internet. I know precisely zero audiophiles. Until stumbling upon this one guy at work who says oh yeah and put your CDP on a phone book, and another one on top. Which sounded even crazier but the guy was serious and this being the 90's we all had phone books laying around so I gave it a shot. This time it was only the most barely perceptible improvement, but it was there. If you really listened for it. So not much. Then again, free. Wrapped some fabric around it, ran the CDP like this for quite some time. 

Around this time I'm shopping for components for my new listening room when this guy is more excited about something called Black Diamond Racing Cones than the amp or whatever he was trying to sell me. So I get 3 of these things and they're so much better than the phone book its hard to believe! Well, okay, it was a phone book. Got to compare against something, right? 

These Cones are so good I take them to this Seattle audiophile club and show them around all excited and.... nobody cares. Except this one guy who goes on and on about how he has tried phone books, tennis balls, racquet balls, styrofoam, cones, spikes, on and on everything under the sun, he's tried it all there's just no way he's gonna be impressed- he makes this very clear to me- but okay you're the new guy let me borrow em why not. But they're not gonna work. No way. 

Next day this guy calls me up gushing going on and on how great these are what are they again where did you find em how many can I get? I actually wind up becoming the Washington State distributor for Black Diamond Racing selling Cones, Shelf, all of it. This guy winds up like me, pretty much everything on BDR.  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367  

A lot of what I knew about vibration control back then was based on my own experience with BDR, and learning from owner DJ Casser. This resulted in what became my guiding principles of vibration control: Mass, Stiffness, and Damping.
128x128millercarbon
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,197 posts
 
I believe it’s MC’s theory that there is no system regardless of how poor and unresolving, not to materially benefit from better isolation/vibration control and better cabling. I disagree. While these elements are important they truly only move the needle when the speakers, amplification and source components are of high quality. Putting high octane fuel in a Yugo isn’t really going to make a difference
For cabling you are relatively right or near the truth.... Most cables dont make a difference that is on par with the mechanical, electrical or acoustical embeddings controls in most low or medium Hi-Fi system....The only exception will be changing cables perhaps on an already well embedded very costly and sensitive audio system....

Cables are different, dont distort my words, but mechanical embedding fo example work powefully on all S.Q. aspects at least on par with changing cables; and if we add the 2 other embeddings controls there is no more comparison.... For example acoustical active controls and passive treatment litteraly can transform your audio system and put it on another level..... I know my low cost 500 hundred audio vintage system is very hard to upgrade for me.... It will cost me over 10,000 dollars to do so with an upgraded but rightfully embedded new audio system....

For vibrations isolation and controls, and for resonance controls( yes they are 2 different things) ANY system at ANY price will benefit greatly ... Saying otherwise has only one explanation, you never experiment or you never listen to the results.....

My best to you....
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon OP
12,531 posts
 
Vibrations produce fascinating patterns that vary with frequency. https://youtu.be/WmwnN_T_wW8?t=31 Happens in all materials, forming different patterns with different shaped materials. Happens everywhere from the cantilever to the speaker diaphragm.  

Even seemingly inert wires. Mahgister I believe it was you who suggested holding a speaker cable while playing music. The vibrations especially with bass are surprisingly strong.  

In hindsight this makes total sense. Electric current produces magnetic fields that attract and repel. So of course an alternating current will produce alternating magnetic fields that will cause it to vibrate.
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,197 posts
 
Mahgister I believe it was you who suggested holding a speaker cable while playing music. The vibrations especially with bass are surprisingly strong.
:)

I dont think it was me....

But ANY changes can affect the audio system sound, in the mechanical,electrical or acoustical embeddings dimension.... It is very easy to verify by listenings experiments...

And any part of any electronic component vibrate caused by external and internal actions....Most people must know that with 5 seconds of reflexion...For a physicist there is no need to think about that..... :)

Is it audible?  Coming from an S.S. amplifier less audible than coming from a tube amplifier, and coming from speakers this is evident.....But any component vibrate and create some negative synchronisation or obstructive regime....I am not a scientist at all.... I only listen and make experiment.... Simple one ....  


rixthetrick's avatar
rixthetrick
1,060 posts
 
:-)
mrdecibel
3,065 posts
 
Likely before you all were doing any of this, I was damping the undersides of tt platters, speaker horns, woofer / driver frames and cabinets, books and bricks on top of and under components, changing out the a cheap thin power cords with shielded heavy duty ones, isolating power transformers from their chassis’s, damping heat sinks, and so on and so on. I agree with much that has been said. The system must be to a certain point, high resolution ( inclusive of the room ), and our ears / brain / listening ability, needs to be somewhat " learned ", " experienced ", and " relaxed ". I say relaxed, because otherwise, we might be fooling ourselves with much of this. I do agree, completely with MC, that everything matters, and everything is audible, under the right and consistent conditions. What I have touted on many threads, is there is never " this is the end all ", or this is the best ", because, we are all different in what we hear, different in what we want, and as long as you get to that place of musical enjoyment, great. Arguing about various feet and platforms is worthless. We try it, we like it. We try something else, we like it more, or not. Part of the merry go round, about the hobby, all about the universal language....of music.
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