Anyone listen to Zu Audio's Definition Mk3?

Charles,

I know about the Takatsuki 300B, but I haven't heard them. Construction details appear beyond reproach. I have Emission Labs, some older Vaic, KR Audio, Sophia mesh plates and some Chinese solid plate 300B tubes. When I got my Audion Golden Dream PSET monoblocks, the stock 300B tubes were Audion private label Chinese (appeared Shuguang) production. At the time, Audion's position was that the amps were optimized for readily-available mass production Chinese 300B tubes, so there was no need to buy high cost alternatives. I laughed about this at first, but several trials of higher-end tubes did not yield meaningful improvements, and in some case, more expensive tubes were setbacks. The Audion label Shuguang tubes were the most objective.

This changed after the amps' power supplies were recapped. Then, some of the higher end tubes that introduced colorations in the stock amps, instead sounded objective while their individual attributes still shone through. So, the Sophia mesh plate, which was previously euphonic and marred by its bass bloat, is now linear and has good bass discipline while its image-benefitting high frequency "spray" is still present. The KR Audio 300B, which was great for its fast, tight bass and punchy clarity, but not favored because of its "hardness" and glare, now sounds open, dimensional and defined without its former pugnacious aggression.

But thanks for the reminder, as it is my intent to seek and try the Takatsuki. I am not surprised you find it a clear upgrade from the Shuguang Treasure. I'm wondering how it will compare to the KR and Emission Labs in my Audions.

Phil

Agear,
If you can`t appreciate the difference in manner between Phil and glory, that speaks for it self. No one is acting as an"overlord" we`re all expressing opinions(that will differ) on an open forum. So someone with Zu speakers did`nt like a SET amp,big deal, choose what you like that`s all. I`m sure some have rejected SS amps with Zu or other brands, does that mean all SS amps
are substandard? If you prefer SS that`s your call,nothing more or less.I suspect it`s you who needs to read posts more carefully.

Luckily, the UK is not an earthquake zone, so I don't feel the need to install an uber heavy (and uber $s) tt in my apartment. In fact I am v. taken by the newer breed of tt that are much sleeker in engineering/materials terms like the Brinkmann Bardo, Bergmann Sindre, Inspire Monarch, Trans Fi Salvation, Grand Prix Monaco 1.5.
The problem in the UK is that it is hard to get a handle on DD/idlers like the Steve Dobbins Beat, Wave Kinetics NVS, esp. when DD proponents say that it is impossible to go back to belt drive of ANY kind when DD/idler correctly implemented is heard.
My best bet is to choose between Brinkmann, Trans Fi, Inspire Monarch which will give me a good flavour of DD/idler, against belt drives like the terrific AC powered Palmer Audio 2.5 and Claro Audio Clarity Duo, despite these tts having few reviews, and minimal presence on the web. If my lottery win comes up, the $45000 wave Kinetics NVS looks the business; another day, maybe.

Agear,

The less said about Gary's choices of expression in the prior inconsequential imbroglio the better. But there is a difference in civility of discussion between me declining to endorse Gary's amplification and cable choices (which is what he seemed to want) and his langugage, tone and the shop-worn "Ford Focus" analogy. I did plainly write several times that I had no quarrel with him believing his choices were right for him, and that it shouldn't matter to him what I think. My entire reason for debating the point was to refute the idea that buying an exceptional speaker like Definition 4 mandates a subsequent massive investment in state-of-the-art gear to realize their potential. That's a pernicious notion, IMO, that I resist no matter the brands involved.

On the matter of a Zu owner who auditioned Audion gear on my advice: I don't know who you are referring to nor the circumstances of their audition. There are only two people I know of in the US who actually bought Audion Black Shadow 845 monoblocks specifically, for Zu speakers. In one case, the gentleman was unhappy with very well regarded solid state amps many times the price of the $12,995/pr Audions. He bought the amps blind, on my advice, and his response was "this is the best sound I've ever heard from an amplifier" (I have the email). He did not keep them. The reason is, he is highly sensitive to and intolerant of noise in electronics. He doesn't even like to hear relays on turn-on. I had warned him as part of my recommendation that the Audions would not be noisy in an obvious sense but they would not be as quiet as his solid state amps, and if this was going to be a problem, we should consider other options. He wanted to try, having never owned a tube amp, let alone SET. Others who heard his system found the noise level of the Audion amps to be inconsequential, but it was his system, not theirs. He's now embarked on a search to get "that same Audion sound with solid state silence." So far, he's still searching and I'm searching with him.

In the second case, the Black Shadows are firmly ensconced in a two-systems household and the qualities of those amps are fully recognized and appreciated, with both Zu and two other brands of speakers. I know of several others in Europe and Latin America who bought these amps after reading my experience with them, and all of those owners are happy. Black Shadows, particularly tubed well, are not "overly colored." They do have middling SET noise (less than most, a little more than the quietest (Sophhia)) and while I plainly say that most push-pull tube and solid state amps will have greater bass discipline and precision, the Audion 845 produces well-defined bass that is convincing and easily within the realm of high-end sound. Still, others may disagree or simply prefer something else, and that's OK with me.

Phil

>>Do you use power conditioning on your Def 4 plate amps as well as the front end electronics?<<

I simply power my Def4 subwoofer amps directly from the wall. I haven't heard any advantage to power conditioning there, and my balanced power transformer for the front end doesn't have the headroom to add them. When I get a higher-capacity balanced power isolation transformer for power amplification, I'll try the Def4 Hypex amps also powered balanced; perhaps that will prove better than directly from the wall.

Phil