Anyone listen to Zu Audio's Definition Mk3?

Agear, I'm fully aware that I'm seeking the "Holy Grail"...aren't we all? I've been on the merry-go-round for 25 years, chasing one more elusive "attribute", usually at the expense of another. With the Zu's, however, I don't feel any desire to risk all the wonderful, music-serving attributes for the "possibility" of acquiring that last one. If this comes across as unnecessarily cautious, it's because my audio journey has highlighted how easy it is to find myself back on that "merry-go-round".

I would love to hear Glory's experience regarding that final attribute. Why has Audiogon eliminated the ability to e-mail a fellow member?

I do remain skeptical that my path lies through solid state amplication for a variety of reasons, but I'm cautiously open-minded to it. Keeping the hyperbole to a minimum, more often than not (though not always), tube amplication has brought me closer to my music-serving attributes, whereas quality solid state more often required the sacrifice of at least one music-serving attribute to gain another.

A recent example: I purchased a pair of Clayton M200's (pure class A, 200w/ch) to use as a "change up". It's certainly overkill from a power standpoint with the Definitions, but by most accounts the Clayton amps are truly outstanding SS amps. There is no grain that I'm overtly aware of, harmonics are very good, bass control and impact is impressive, highs are open and extended. Yet as good as the Claytons are and given the clearly superior and visceral bass, I "feel" that I'm giving something up in comparison to the Atma's. It could be (and probably is) simply that the Atma's are a better match for THIS speaker, but I've had many more experiences similar to this over the years.

Agree that room and setup are critical and have had mixed results via better PC's and cables. I currently use PS Audio Premier for all but amps, though sometimes plug the M60's into it as well with no noticeable deleterious effects.

German boxers,
The Clayton class A amplifiers are about as good as it gets for very high level SS amps(regardless of price). Your example reminds me of my former Symphonic Line ownership.Some people will just prefer tubes to SS and vice versa of course.In your case OTL seems to fit your desires, for phil and myself SET is preferred. I`m not sure how glory`s experiences will impact your own 25 years in this hobby any more or less than phil`s or anyone else for that matter.(I`d assume by now you know what works for you). For every person who`s migrated from say low power tubes to finally settle with high power SS, there`re just as many who went in the opposite direction to their ultimate satisfaction.

Glory selected the ASR Emitter over all previous tube amp types in his system. On the other hand phil rejected the ASR in favor of his Audion SET. Simple point, it`s pure subjective decision making. There`s no ultimate superior amplifier just many individual preferences. Thank goodness we have such a varied pool of amplifier types to choose from.I like the OTL amps I`ve heard but I just like SET even more so, you may be the reverse.
A good tube amp(particularly SET) in my personal experience sounds more like the 'real thing'. At lease for me SS amps in general tend to remind me I`m listening to a 'stereo system' and are less convincing as providing that 'live' feel and presence.But hey that`s just me. I wish you the best.
Regards,

Germanboxers, I did not choose my terms correctly. By 'holy grail,' I did not imply that your quest for 3D tangibility was mystical or unrealistic. I meant to say that it was the essence of good audio: convincing audio illusion. I have heard very few systems pull it off regardless of amplification, etc. I too have made inept, stumbling attempts at system building while chasing various sonic attributes.

I have a few friends who own Claytons and love them even on higher efficiency speakers. That being said, they have also been described as being "darker sounding" for class A SS, and that may be part of the reason why you like the Atmas better. Believe it or not, many people felt the older generation ASR amps were too dark sounding. Go figure. I do know that using SS amps can make life harder in terms of achieving synergy and good sound. Tubes are much more forgiving particularly with a digital front end and high efficiency speakers. I briefly experimented with the Emerald Physics CS 2.3s, and high powered SS (TRL Samsons) was not copacetic.

You have already cobbled together a nice system. No need to chase a lot of new variables. The one variable worth investigating is the new secret sauce in Gary's system, one that produced exactly what he (and it appears you) were looking for: Dale Pitcher's new conditioner.

It is supremely irritating that you cannot email members any longer.

Spirit - Thank you for your reply. Gives me something to consider.

>>One area I haven't been able to get "right" in my current room is the truly 3D holographic effect....Do the Mk IV's improve upon the previous models regarding this attribute?<<

I've never had any trouble getting multi-axial dimensioning from any generation Definition in my room, but for anyone who has, I have to say that Def4 will improve your chances considerably. It's unity of presentation and the greater precision of projection off the nano FRDs have yielded better spatial presentation for me. Take some time to get toe-in right for your room and listening position and you should be able to snap into focus a nicely dimensioned soundstage.

>> I swear I could make out the lips, neck, body, legs of musicians...it was so "dense, palpable, and 3D" that it really was hard to believe. Is this kind of experience possible with the Mk IV's and a proper SET? <<

Normally I'd say to someone who seeks this but has never heard it that they have to question whether they are able to hear this way. Not everyone processess the sonic cues that register on their eardrums. But since you have heard it prior, then I say yes, and in fact well-executed SET (wideband, fast, good unity) gets you closer than push-pull topology, generally. But sloppy SET won't.

>>...but am curious if an 845 SET with the Def Mk IV's has the potential to duplicate what I heard with the Proac/Cary 805?<<

Yes, but again it depends upon specific amp choice, and then you can usually improve all aspects via careful replacement of stock tubes. Generally, 300B amps don't have the bass discipline to be effectively paired with Definitions of any version. There are exceptions, but they usually aren't cheap. The Audion Golden Dream, Coincident Frankenstein and Audion Silver Night are in the realm of Def-compatible. Also, 300B push-pull amps. But the 845 and 211 big-glass tubes are much better mates to Definitions, if part of very well designed and executed circuits.

>>I refuse to trade any of the strengths of my current system though!<<

Start with your Atmasphere and draw your own conclusions. It's a great combination to begin knowing your next move, if one is warranted.

Phil