Anyone listen to Zu Audio's Definition Mk3?

Kharma + ASR. Two wrongs together don't make a right. But there's a larger point to be made: A review of something I haven't heard *can* give me a clue of what to take a chance on, particularly if I can find reviews of other components I *have* heard, by the same writer. Then I can triangulate how much credibility to assign the new review based on what we agreed or disagreed on in the past. But a review of something I *have* heard isn't persuasive or actionable to me in the least, if we reached different conclusions. So save it -- anyone can find a favorable review for *anything*.

Do power cords make a difference? Well, yes, in that they tend to bring their own sound. But if an amplifier needs a specific power cord to sound musically-convincing, and without it it doesn't, then said power cord should be supplied with the amp if it is so elemental to the performance of the circuit. "Dude, you didn't have the right power cord..." doesn't cut it. I'm pretty sure even ASR wouldn't endorse that proposition.

Somebody mentioned silver. Silver's advantage is simply in being the superior conductor, granting it wideband transparency. If silver doesn't sound good it's because there is a problem present upstream that silver isn't hiding. Dielectrics, wire weaves, etc. have their effects and can overwhelm the role of silver vs. copper vs. palladium, etc. But silver doesn't add detail or dynamics that aren't there in the first place. Other conductors may subtract some, which can be a good thing if something upstream of the speaker cable -- whether the amp, the source or the recording itself -- either contributes some hash or isspatially, tonally or harmonically incorrect. Silver's advantage is to simply reveal more. If silver and ASR don't work well together, the fault is with ASR, not silver by itself. It's not that silver is not good enough for the gear; it's that the gear or recording isn't good enough for silver, as has often been the case with digital.

Every power cord, speaker cable and interconnect introduces distinctive sonic character. Ideally we try to minimize this reality. A lot of people use these cable elements for sound-shaping, effectively rendering them fixed-parametric tone controls. Do what you want. My choice (and recommendation) is to assemble musically-convincing high-resolution gear that sounds proper in the aggregate on any reasonable cabling, and then optimize further with a neutral wire loom (which generally isn't correlated to cost).

Phil

Agear, why stoop to snide comments about phil`s room/system and ancillary equipment?

Just stating the obvious. You decision to flag that comment could be interpreted as snide.

Just don't expect my view of it to change unless the ASR meaningfully improves their amplification so I hear a better result. Until then you can quote 3 or 3000 converts. It's irrelevant. If majorities reflected good judgment in hifi, there would be no Bose, B&W, Boulder, Wilson or Krell.

Friederich Schafer has worked on that design for over 30 years. Maybe he should hire you as a consultant?

Silver's advantage is simply in being the superior conductor, granting it wideband transparency.

Silver is only nominally better as a conductor compared to copper (6% better). Translates into "louder" and not an increased bandwidth. Why is it that SET owners gravitate to silver? Hmmm.

Every power cord, speaker cable and interconnect introduces distinctive sonic character. Ideally we try to minimize this reality.

The same argument can be made against using SET amplification. Why not minimize second harmonic distortion? I have talked at length with a manufacturer who makes what many consider the best tube amplification in the world, and he felt that SETs present so many disadvantages from a design standpoint that they were not worth pursuing despite the plump and pleasing midrange. I will grant that they make life easier. No need to sweat the details regarding wire, conditioning, and even your room. C'est la vie....

Glory, I have ordered the Def 4s with their stock footers. Problem? Your suggestions? They will be situated on Symposium Acoustics Isis platforms that have worked so well with my Def 2s.

Good discussion folks,
Most often when a cable manufactuer has both silver and copper offerings the silver is considered the higher end and better/further up the line choice(with rare exceptions). Silver is believed to be the more neutural,transparent,resolved and open etc. Tubes and in particular SET amps historically mate well with silver as they don`t usally require added warmth,fullness or body to enhance their natural tone and harmonics.

The ASR is class AB and uses OP amps in the input stage(thus introducing negative feedback in the circuit). This will certainly lower the low order harmonic distortion(2nd and 3rd) but unfortunately produces the higher odd order(5th,7th and 9th) that are really nonexistent with the SET amps(which do have higher amounts of 2nd distortion(this of course varies quite much depending on the particular SET amp used).

If would seem logical that the Kubala Sosna which is 'generally' considered a 'warm' and 'rich' cable will complement the ASR lean/thinner presentation(compared to tubes). A good silver cable won`t add this full body(nor subtract)thus there`s no masking or embellishment for the ASR.

Marshall Nack`s findings do make sense to explain this synergy. His discovery just makes the point clearly with regards to proper matching to get a desired result.

>>Friederich Schafer has worked on that design for over 30 years. Maybe he should hire you as a consultant?<<

I commend his persistence. I heard the early amps. I had hopes for more progress by now.

>>Silver is only nominally better as a conductor compared to copper (6% better). Translates into "louder" and not an increased bandwidth. Why is it that SET owners gravitate to silver? Hmmm.<<

You are correct that the percentage improvement of silver's conductivity over copper is small, numerically. In coils or in wire weaves however, the bandwidth and revelatory differences between metals can be real in addition. Having worked on silver vs. copper based audio product development efforts, I am speaking of both measured and audible differences, first-hand. Regardless, compensating for any loudness difference is easy. More to the point, I get equally good sound out of SET amps with copper, copper + silver content and silver cabling. But the middle option does it at moderate cost. I don't have a bias for silver cabling for silver itself. I don't really care what's in a cable as long as it is sonically neutral or close to it.

Put another way, if an amp is musically convincing, it ought to be also credible on Paul Speltz' inexpensive Anti-Cables, and then the owner can decide how far to take cabling. I know I could do that with any SET amp I consider exceptional on its merits.

>>Why not minimize second harmonic distortion?<<

The best SET amp designs do minimize 2nd order harmonic distortion. They just don't go so far as to incur the downsides of negative feedback to push that one performance attribute to vanishing levels. There's more to perception of fidelity than vacant harmonic distortion.

>>I have talked at length with a manufacturer who makes what many consider the best tube amplification in the world, and he felt that SETs present so many disadvantages from a design standpoint that they were not worth pursuing despite the plump and pleasing midrange.<<

He's entitled to that view. Obviously SET amp designers disagree. Great SET amps don't have a "plump and pleasing" midrange. There's nothing "plump" about the midrange of the most convincing modern SET amps. It's the midrange qualities that you describe that kept me from embracing early examples of the SET amp revival. You just have to hear more credible examples, properly tubed. What they do have is a tonally complete, realistic midrange. What the design primarily gives up aside from high power is some ultimate bass control. It's a small price for the gains in real music fidelity in 90% of the aural range.

>>No need to sweat the details regarding wire, conditioning, and even your room.<<

If you choose the right gear to start with, the details are far easier to sort out. Music is the intent, not fetishism. I think it's great ASR amplification works for you. I'd rather see people happy in this pursuit than frustrated and chasing their tails.

Phil