Thanks for the reality check. And the suggestion.
When does my class Atoll IN200 A/B integrated switch from class A to class B?
I have an Atoll IN200 integrated amp (earlier version of this: https://www.atoll-electronique.com/en/products/integrated/integrated-in200sig/)
Having read a lot of praise about class A power, I’m wondering how to tell from specs when my integrated likely needs to switch from class A to class B?
The reason I’m curious is that I’m still wondering how my speakers might sound with a pure class A amplifier (such as Pass, etc.) but perhaps the integrated I have is already demonstrating much of that if there is a long enough delivery of class A power from it already? My speakers are 8 ohms, 87 db sensitivity, standmounts.
I apologize if this question is too simple; I hope I’ve posed it clearly.
P.S. This is not about dissatisfaction with my integrated or other gear (I have tubes, too). It's really just part of a longer term attempt to understand how different power sources change the character of a system, particularly the speakers.
Having read a lot of praise about class A power, I’m wondering how to tell from specs when my integrated likely needs to switch from class A to class B?
The reason I’m curious is that I’m still wondering how my speakers might sound with a pure class A amplifier (such as Pass, etc.) but perhaps the integrated I have is already demonstrating much of that if there is a long enough delivery of class A power from it already? My speakers are 8 ohms, 87 db sensitivity, standmounts.
I apologize if this question is too simple; I hope I’ve posed it clearly.
P.S. This is not about dissatisfaction with my integrated or other gear (I have tubes, too). It's really just part of a longer term attempt to understand how different power sources change the character of a system, particularly the speakers.
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- 30 posts total
I wrote to Atoll and conveyed the skepticism posted here about the Class A operation of the Atoll. They replied: From Atoll engineers: "Hello, Thank for for this information. This is one of the most current mistakes people make about our amplifiers; they compare the size of our heat-sink to a single one; this is nonsense regarding to thermal dissipation because when you use a single, big heat-sink you have to put in isolation components that increase (a lot) the thermal resistor. For that reason, and on that point they are correct -- in order to have the same dissipation you would require an almost 10 times bigger heat sink for each channel; but with our trick, the transistors are transferring about 100% of their heat to the heat-sink with no waste of energy. You'll find attached a measurement that shows the distortion when power is rising; as you can see (in the picture), the distortion is under 0,002% up to 50W on both channel. Best regards. ATOLL Team" I don't think I can post pictures here, but anyone who'd like to see it can P.M. me. |
Quick follow up. I discovered this comment about their more advanced amp and I sent it to Atoll: What I found said, “The high bias allows the IN400SE to operate in a Class A for the first ten watts before going into Class AB operation." http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/atoll-electronique-in400se-integrated-amplifier/ And I asked Atoll if they were claiming the my IN200SE operates to 40w in class A while a later and more expensive model only operates in Class A for the first 10 watts? If that is true, why did you not employ this technology in the later amp?"" They replied: "The IN400se use almost the same technology as the IN200se so both work in class A up to the third of the maximum power." So, they're in contradiction. Is it Class A up to 10w or to 40w? They seem to say both but insist (to me) that it's 40w in Class A. Despite the lack of heat, fins, etc. They're just jerking me around at this point, right? |
I think they are jerking you around. Eliminating the electrical insulating material between the transistor and heatsink will reduce the thermal impedance, allowing a bit more of the transistors heat to be transferred to the heatsink, but this doesn't change the laws of thermodynamics. The heat still has to go somewhere. This would allow the heatsinks to run a little hotter without risk of damaging the transistors - say 60 or 65 degrees C. But even so, heatsinks this small would not allow nearly enough heat to be dissipated for 40W class A operation. And your case would be so hot that you wouldn't be able to touch it for more than a second or two. Take a look at the Pass Int-60. This is rated at only 60w/ch into 8 ohm (although that's pretty conservative) and has rail voltages considerably less than your amp, which means the transistors need to dissipate less power at the same idle current. The Int-60 will do class A up to 30w/ch. Now take a look at the size of the heatsinks on this amp. |
- 30 posts total