Teach me about cartridge 'retipping'

Okay, I stumbled across my name being mentioned so I signed up. I just want to say a few things as a retipper. First of all, it’s not for everyone. Chakster’s mind is clearly made up about the subject and he takes a dim view. There are a lot of assumptions to what he says, namely strict uniformity and perfection to be found with any factory made cartridge as well as zero error and perfect tolerance. The basis of his reservations go like this: Every single cartridge ever made by any manufacturer is perfectly thought out and engineered to the highest degree of precision. Any change to this formula is a degradation. Okay. We get it. Makes sense. Now, to poke some holes.

I’m not interested in weak cartridges or average level carts, those inferior cartridges can be upgraded like those cheap oldschool broadcast Denon 103, but I am talking about very good cartridges, exceptional performers and you can’t upgrade them (or you can only pretend to upgrade them, if fact you can return them back to life at certain cost if the owner willing to pay that, you’re biased to sell this service).

I often referring to exotic MM cartridges, re-tipping or refurbishing MM is not worth it because original styli available (sometimes very hard to find, but available from time to time), the rest is degradation and waste of money. If one MM is broken then another top quality MM can be even better (definitely better than refurbished MM).

Regarding some old MC cartridges I don’t understand why anyone have to proceed with a third party re-tipping or refurbishing service if another working cartridges available for sale? Maybe those Koetsu owners suffering, because the cartridge is extremely expensive and they can save a lot on a third party re-tip, but why then buy a Koetsu if you can’t afford factory service in Japan from Koetsu? This is just an example of strange human behavior.

Chakster himself says to buy a slew of the same model of cartridge to get an idea of what the cartridge is supposed to sound like. Hidden in this advice is Chakster’s own observation that many individual examples of the same exact model of cartridge are going to sound different from each other even though they use all the same parts, are built by the same people and must have the same degree of quality in their construction which is higher quality than any retipper can provide.

But if this is the case, then how does one explain why these cartridges that should all be uniformly exactly the same and perfect sound so different from each other?

If a cartridge from one manufacturer sound different from sample to sample then this is a very bad manufacturer. I’m happy to buy many samples of rare vintage MM because they are exceptional and I like the way they sound. To make sure those models are top quality I have to buy many and compare them to other MM, MI and LOMC. I’m looking for cartridges in perfect condition like new or even unused NOS. Never owned two samples of one NOS cartridge that can sound different.

Next assumption: Cartridge manufacturers use exclusive parts that are available only to them. This is partially true. I have never been able to get the gold plated tapered boron cantilever that Audio-Technica offers except by purchasing an Audio-Techica stylus at retail.

You’re not able to buy not only exclusive Gold-Plated Boron PIPE cantilevers made for AT only, I want to remind you that Beryllium cantilevers are no longer available for anyone in the business. You are not able to get short Dynavector prism Ruby or DIAMOND cantilevers, because it’s Dynavector’s exclusive. You can’t buy Boron cantilevers with attached Pipe in font of it, because it’s ZYX exclusive. What else? SONY Diamond cantilever and stylus tip is one piece of diamond. I can remind you about extremely rare Grace Ceramic Pipe cantilevers exclusively made for Grace in the 80’s, but i’m sure nobody even know it’s exist.

Glue on the tip: All manufacturers use glue. The very idea that there is no glue holding a diamond into place on any cantilever assembly save the solid diamond/stylus feat of engineering by Yamaha or Sony whoever it was is just not the case. Manufacturers often use less glue than a retipper will, but manufacturers will also turn their backs on you if a diamond falls off, and they do fall off. A retipper wants to make sure the diamond stays on and a retipper knows that the extra epoxy is of such low mass that it’s not going to affect the ETM in any meaningful way.

Namiki uses wads of glue to hold their Micro Ridge onto a boron cantilever. So do retippers. The diamond itself is so small that the glue is negligible. If under testing I were ever to notice tracing issues, then I would use less glue. But the only stylus that is really fussy about keeping things extremely low mass is a Pickering or Stanton stylus. These really need someone who can work to the absolutely lowest mass repair possibly or you will have sibilance. This is why the aftermarket styli are often not so great.

Modern cartridges is not what i;m talking about, some of them are indeed got cantilevers/styli from the same suppliers, but there are an exceptions too.

Reto Luigi Andreoli (trained by Garrott Brothers) is not the one who will buy any parts for his Bluelectic cartridges from well known suppliers. How about his Synthobionic cantilever ? Many cartridge designers doing their own thing and very proud of it!

I’m sorry, but you can’t do this like the Japanese manufacturer 30 years ago. This is SONY Boron pipe with press-fit diamond. Where is the glue here?

Another example of the Boron PIPE (not available for any manufacturer nowadays) is Grace - LEVEL II BR/MR, again press-fit and it’s Boron, no glue. Technics did nearly the same and what makes those MM cartridges so special is extremely low effective mass (because of the very special cantilever and stylus combo).

In my opinion it’s weird to retip MM cartridges like Stanton or Pickering or any MM cartridges, because original styli are still available NOS.

Titanium pipe cantilever and no glue again. It’s Victor X1IIe. How anyone can re-tip this ?

I take enormous pride in my work. I really enjoy retipping and getting cartridges to work again. I can go on and on and on on this topic, but I only wanted to address a few points since I was sort of summoned and I have read chakster’s opinions a number of times and I just wanted to respond to some of them. They are the kinds of arguments that are made when someone insists on a type of perfection that simply does not exist in this world, even by their own observations which they choose to simply ignore.

All pictures above made by myself using my own cartridges and I have many more. I have nothing against your job, hobby or business. I want to spread the light a bit on rare and exotic cartridges that simply impossible to re-tip without degrade the quality in my opinion. Re-tipper of refurbished carts like that are no longer unique. There are some exceptional vintage MM cartridges, some of them are not very expensive compared to modern LOMC.

Suspension wear and age: well overstated. I have retipped probably thousands of cartridges by now, many of them decades old. There are a few examples of particular models with known issues (Shure V15 Type IV is a big one), and some others to a lesser degree, but otherwise, suspension rubbers are basically stable. Some have fragile suspensions that will likely break if the cantilever is ever broken, like the Denon DL301 MKII and almost any Audio-Technica, and others just go soft over time like some Yamahas whose suspension donut simply liquifies and actually evaporates. Supex SD901 Super (but not the SD900 Super or any other Supex in my experience, all of which are extremely stable) just turns to goop most of the time. Storage conditions are more of a predictor of whether a suspension will be bad. But most people will store a broken cartridge in a dark, cool environment away from moisture, like the sock drawer, as a matter of instinct.

All those are mediocre level cartridges, except for Audio-Technica, and I disagree that AT have weak suspension, I bought so many AT moving magnet carts (top models in many samples) from the 80’s and they are all just fine, no problem with suspension (AT-ML150, AT-ML170, AT-ML180).

Okay so we disagree on a lot of points, but your claim that you are only talking about really out there one-off cartridges is not supported by your posts.  You started by questioning why someone would retip a Grace F9 when NOS is available.  To many people a Grace F9, for no other reason than it’s moving magnet, is a cheap cartridge that no one should bother with.  One who shares these views would not bother with that cartridge at all whether NOS or not.

Also the number of original F9 styli in the world is very limited.  It just makes sense to keep them going if you can.  The exact replacement diamond is still available from Ogura, so what’s the difference?  An NOS stylus can be bad too.  A retipper will check performance of the completed stylus.  You can’t get that with a sealed NOS.

By the way, I press fit diamonds in and out of cantilevers.  The glue is insurance.  Other designs don’t allow for press fit, like boron or gemstone.  Glue is used in the trade by the manufacturers.  End of story

Anyway, I’ve said all I need to say.  Those who think retipping is a good idea will agree and those who think retipping is madness will not be persuaded.  Everyone enjoys their hobby in different ways.

The feedback I receive from happy customers is phenomenal and I feel great helping them to get the most out of what their idea of enjoying their hobby is.  I’ve never been someone to race cartridges against each other and determine a winner.  I think that’s an asset when I can find something to like about just about any cartridge.

I went from retipping the diamond cantilever on a Koetsu Coralstone Platinum Diamond with a Namiki Micro Ridge to retipping a Decca Deram with a .6 mil bonded conical set into a self-made enlarging sleeve as the very next assignment.  Original Decca Deram styli are highly valued and the aftermarket ones are made out of the wrong kind of material to work well.  No one else bothers with these cartridges or styli to my knowledge.  The Deccas cantilever is just as odd and different and unique as the Koetsu’s.  I enjoyed repairing both immensely.  That’s what’s in it for me.

joe, i also add my thanks to you for chiming in

always good to hear highly informed/involved parties sharing their experiences and perspectives, divergent as they may be

this forum is at its best when these views are shared and debated, then readers interested in the debate can decide and vote with their feet and wallets

Couple more points: there are no gold-plated boron pipe cantilevers available to anyone unless they find NOS somewhere. Not sure there ever was a gold-plated boron pipe cantilever in production to begin with If there was, it’s the first I’ve heard of it.

To criticize a Koetsu owner who doesn’t have the money, or maybe who does have the money but who doesn’t believe their cartridge needs to be completely stripped out and replaced as demonstrating “strange behavior,” is just snobbery. What if a Koetsu owner knocked their diamond out during initial set up? In fact, most damage happens at this critical phase. Sending the cartridge to Koetsu for their outrageous pricing to do work that is totally unnecessary: please explain to me how that is not strange and wasteful human behavior.

And a Koetsu is hardly an exotic cartridge anymore. The cantilevers and diamond they use are purchased directly off the shelf from Ogura. I can buy them and so can you. These are not third party parts. There are no third party manufacturers of nude line contact diamonds, period. The only finished diamond manufacturer that even comes close to the definition of “third party” is Expert Stylus Co. since they manufacture the “Paratrace” knock offs of the van den Hul 1 and van den Hul 2. But even those aren’t knock offs because they also manufacture the actual van den Hul 1 and van den Hul 2 for van den Hul. They get to make the Paratrace for themselves under the licensing agreement which is highly unusual, but shows the kind of power the manufacturer of such a scarce item can wield.

So, ignoring the very recent emergence of the Swiss black nude diamonds, to suggest that inferior nude diamonds could even exist shows a lack of basic knowledge of the state of the industry. I can buy the OEM diamonds from Ogura, Namiki and Gyger and so can you. Same even for other cartridges like the top of the line Dynavectors and others. So why not use a retipper who can help you, get you excellent service and fast turnaround? And why criticize and put people down as strange who make choices that you disagree with, particularly when you don’t have the imagination to conjure up a situation where spending thousands of dollars on unnecessary work doesn’t make sense, and conclude that the truth comes down solely to a lack of money. That’s ridiculous.

Incidentally, I would not be at all surprised if the black nude diamonds continue to be refined to the point that they start competing in the high end OEM marketplace as well. There’s is no reason why Synton can’t continue to develop that item into having the same level of quality as Ogura, Gyger and Namiki. The elliptical they produce already has a contact patch more like a fine line than an elliptical as it is, and the shaping and polishing is definitely more true ellipsoid.  The block is pretty large though.  If they could reduce the mass, which they probably will, it could be as good as anything else on the market in time.  

You also said it makes no sense to retip any moving magnet cartridge when original styli are available. If they are not, buy a new cartridge.
Why? Here’s something you are missing. Since the M97xE went out of production, there are people who want a new stylus but spending $150 or $200 which is the price they go for now is too much. Also, lots of people don’t have the ability or notion to remove their cartridge or set it up again and align it. They maybe don’t have the vision, the dexterity, the knowledge, the time or the inclination. They can send me their stylus and for a good price they can have their original N97xE retipped to a nude Ogura PE on an upgrade aluminum cantilever and install their stylus again without having to realign the whole set up. The customer feedback has been outstanding and appreciative.

@needlestein

To criticize a Koetsu owner who doesn’t have the money, or maybe who does have the money but who doesn’t believe their cartridge needs to be completely stripped out and replaced as demonstrating “strange behavior,” is just snobbery.

there has been an ongoing pandemic of snobbery on this forum for the last 20-30 years... :)

many longtime posters are infected... i myself not immune... see threads of cables, amplifiers, speakers, not to mention things analog

to quote the orange man, it is what it is