jjss49:
"
know that utter transparency is often not the path to musicality of presentation in a hifi system -- sympathetic coloration is frequently the magic ingredient."
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pleasing others, seeking measured accuracy, pursuing ’straight wire w gain’ is often missing the point - which is to assemble a system that plays music so beautifully it moves us makes us smile and feel great."
Hello jjss49,
Very good clarifying comments, too. Thank you. I think we're in complete agreement that the enjoyment of listening to music on an audio system is based on it sounding pleasurable. I think we're in disagreement, however, on whether some sort of system coloration is required, described as euphonic coloration by myself and sympathetic coloration by yourself, to perceiving the overall sound of the reproduced music as sounding pleasurable or if it can also be achieved through the accurate and neutral reproduction of well recorded music that is inherently euphonic or pleasurable.
A fine distinction for certain but also one that I think is very important to make and understand. I was actually referring to this distinction in my last post when I stated:
"I can relate the very different overall sound quality presentations resulting from the different preamps I've utilized in my system with the D-Sonic monoblocks, ranging from a VTL 2.5L with NOS Mullard tubes swapped out to a few other solid state preamps, if you'd like."
Let me explain more thoroughly by relating my experiences with 3 very different preamps I've used with the same pair of D-Sonic M3-600-M class D monoblocks that I can best describe as being powerful, 600 watts each into 8 ohms/1,200 watts each into 4 ohms, very low distortion, with a very low noise floor that have a subjectively and objectively very neutral overall sonic presentation. The other consistent factor in my system is the digital source recordings and equipment, consisting of a combination of ripped Redbook cd APE and hi-res, 24 bit 96 KHz FLAC files stored on a NAS (network area server) hard drive, an Oppo 105 universal disc player serving as a dac and a laptop running JRiver software as the controller/graphic user interface, with all components communicating via wi-fi:
Preamp #1- A VTL 2.5L line stage only preamp with a fairly expensive set of 4 NOS(new old stock) Mullard tubes swapped out for the originally supplied set of 4 Russian or Chinese tubes. This was my initial preamp on my class D audio amp journey that I intentionally employed to impart more warmth, bloom and and dimensionality to the overall system sound quality in order to perceive music as more euphonic and pleasurable.
This worked well, as expected and I enjoyed the overall sound quality effects, of a combination of the euphonic or sympathetic coloring qualities of a tubed preamp with the very neutral qualities of class D amps, successfully for 2-3 years.
Preamp #2- A solid state Oppo 105 universal disc player utilized as a preamp. This was mainly done due to my desire to streamline my system and only after carefully comparing my system's overall sq with and without my VTL preamp being utilized. To my great surprise, I discovered that I perceived my music and overall system sounded as just as sweet, warm and dimensional without the VTL tube preamp inserted in the signal chain as it did with it in the chain. I never imagined this would be the result, thought the VTL would be a permanent part of my system and was more than a bit perplexed. But I had to trust my ears and extensively compared results. So, I removed the VTL from my system and sold it to a good friend who was, and still is, very pleased with its performance in his system.
This streamlining was only possible because I only had a single digital music source and the NAS hard drive was already connected to my Oppo 105 via its USB input. I was also still able to use the Oppo to play cds, sacds and dvd-A audio discs as well as BluRay HD video discs. I believe the audio performed so well through the Oppo because of its exceptionally high quality, low distortion, low noise. highly isolated and very neutral preamp section.
The overall system sound quality effects of my streamlined solid state system creation, combining the very neutral, high quality, low distortion and low noise attributes of the Oppo 105's ss preamp section with the very neutral, high quality, low distortion and low noise attributes of the D-Sonic class D ss monoblock amps, also worked very well but the results were completely unexpected, at least by myself, since this combination still managed to convey the sweetness, bloom and warmth of the music if these qualities existed on the original music and the recordings quality level was sufficient to capture these qualities.
Preamp #3-A Mark Levinson 326S line stage only ss preamp. This is my current preamp, the 3rd I've used with my class D monoblocks, my favorite thus far and the one that has the most interesting pre-Covid story for its use in my system.
I was visiting my favorite local hi-end audio shop here in Indy, Audio Solutions, on a Saturday afternoon as I like to do every few weeks to chat with the owner, Graham, and see and hear what's new and interesting. He was demonstrating a pair of Magico A3 and Sonus Faber Stradivari speakers to a good customer from Montana who was trying to decide which pair performed best and which to purchase. The customer saw me and asked if I cared to join him in the audition and help him decide and I quickly agreed.
Graham was using a large class AB Mark Levinson amp with a ML 326S preamp and hi-res 24/96 and DSD music files fed through a Lumin D2 dac/streamer for the demos, in order to match Montana's actual system electronics. After Montana and I listened to each pair of speakers for about 30 minutes, I couldn't stop being impressed by and praising the truly amazing stereo soundstage illusions both pair of speakers were able to create with admittedly very well recorded and hi-res source material. The soundstage I perceived from the sweet spot position was of normal width, but was especially deep, detailed and layered. Images were solid, stable, very realistic and amazingly palpable. At first I thought it was the high quality and precisely positioned speakers in a well treated room that was responsible for this astounding stereo soundstage illusion.
But Montana said he was shopping for better looking speakers, that also performed very well, to replace his beloved pair of Avantgarde Acoustics large horn speakers that his new bride insisted must depart her new living room. He also seemed less impressed by both the Magico and Sonus Faber ultra-realistic stereo soundstage imaging abilities than I was. I finally asked him about this and he said he achieves even better sound staging results with his Avantgarde horns in his well treated living room.
He said he thinks he's become accustomed to the great stereo sound stage imaging but that, while he thought that high quality and precisely positioned speakers along with a well acoustically treated room were also very important, he attributed the addition of the ML 326S preamp, the Lumin D2 dac/streamer and better quality and higher resolution recordings as the main factors in achieving such stunning stereo imaging results in his system. Really, and Graham agrees? Well, what do you know?, I just happen to have a pair of high quality Magnepan 3.7i speakers in a well treated room and half a hard drive's worth of very good and higher resolution recordings. An idea's forming but do I really want to spend $10K on a preamp, un-streamline my system by reinstalling a regular preamp, spend another $2K on a Lumin D2 and hope I can achieve the same excellent stereo imaging results in my room and system?
Anyway, we both agreed that the Sonus Faber had more bass but the Magicos had higher quality bass, he said he already had a pair of REL subs that he used in the room, we both agreed once again that the midrange, treble and imaging performance were very good on both speakers, he bought the Magicos and Graham told him he'd ship them to Montana on Monday.
After Montana left, Graham broke the good news; he just took in a ML 326S preamp in very good condition on trade that he'd sell to me for half price. So, I bought the preamp and a new Lumin D2 at a small discount.
Well, that was easy!
So, jjss49, what you ask is my long winded point?
Remember your quotes that I requoted at the beginning of this post, that you probably read about a week ago when you began reading this post? Long term memory abilities vary, so here they are again:
"
know that utter transparency is often not the path to musicality of presentation in a hifi system -- sympathetic coloration is frequently the magic ingredient."
"
pleasing others, seeking measured accuracy, pursuing ’straight wire w gain’ is often missing the point - which is to assemble a system that plays music so beautifully it moves us makes us smile and feel great."
After recalling my personal preamp and class D amp journey in more detail, my main point is that I still agree with your first comment, but I've now changed my mind about disagreeing with your second comment and only partially agree.
I agree that the main point of assembling an audio system is that it "plays music so beautifully it moves us makes us smile and feel great." But I believe my current ML preamp performs so well because it does generally sound very neutral, like a 'straight with gain', but it also somehow seems to round off the strident highs and add a touch of sympathetic coloration at the proper times and to the proper notes.
Of course, I know this partial coloration and timing is not logical. I think a more accurate description of the dynamics at work is likely that the preamp is constantly adding a touch of sympathetic coloration or euphony and the music inherently possesses, creates and/or conveys its own perceptions of sympathetic coloration or euphony at specific moments.
And at times they probably must occur simultaneously and we perceive the music as exceptionally euphonic and pleasurable at these moments. It would be interesting to know if this can be measured to determine how often they actually do coincide.
Sorry I wrote a book.
Later,
Tim
