"Musical" subwoofers? Advice please on comparing JL subs

Northman,

First off, do yourself the best favor you could ever do in this sport, go listen to the Bryston Model T's.   Most likely you will find the standard 'Passive Crossover' version out there; that is what my pair started out life as.  I run tremendous power here with my large space, 2000 watts per channel at 4 ohms and I decided I wanted to upgrade my T's to the 'Signature' version which uses massive, Mil-Spec built (gorgeous circuit boards with huge air core wound inductors) external PX-1 crossovers with triple dedicated inputs on the back of the speakers for each section.  Ian at Axiom wanted me to ship the speakers back to him for the conversion and James Tanner at Bryston supplied me the pair of PX-1's.   I decided to do the conversion myself as I have a nice cabinet shop in my barn with all of the equipment needed and that way I don't have to pack up two massive speakers on a pallet to ship to Canada and risk damage.   It took me about three days of work to complete everything using OEM parts Axiom shipped me.   The difference in performance with the PX-1 is just breathtaking!   Find the Signatures to listen to.

Secondly, you should really look at the Axiom EP500V4 , this is a fabulous Sub; plus the amp is designed with a DSP circuit which will not allow the sub to be over driven or distort, you cannot kill these speakers.  It's all Axiom/Bryston proprietary designs and ALL of the components are made in Canada, no overseas Chinese stuff.  SVS was completely built in China and uses switching power supplies from what I saw (I burnt up six of their subs, both amps and drivers).  JL I don't know much about but I believe from what someone told me that they use some Chinese components.

Thirdly, I think that if you are using properly designed gear, you should not be using any room correction type software to EQ your room.   I have Anthem for my preamp and it's a wonderful piece with powerful ARC software with a fancy Mic.  But after running it and allowing the computers to 'balance' the room, I turned it off and went full flat with just my Model T's and the amps/preamps and 3 subs.   Hands down, no software EQ  at all, flat just beat the hell out of the software.   When I spoke with James at Bryston, he told me that they never use any software room correction in their spaces and Ian at Axiom said the same thing.   Properly designed equipment should not need anything other than your own playing with speaker placement and location and phasing; which is far more fun too.

If you happen to be in Northern New England, you are welcome to stop in for a listen before you do anything.

Fastfreight wrote: "But we do have two stereo main speakers... and there is stereo information in bass information (not talking about LFE or .1 here). Stereo subs SUPPORT the soundstage and imaging. Not sure if Swarmy subs do this all over the room or not. Seems dubious."

The Swarm is normally sold with a single amplifier to drive all four subs, in summed mono configuration. An optional second amplifier can be added, such that the left channel signal goes to the subs on the left side of the room, and likewise for the right side.

Imo true subwoofer-region stereo is rare at best, but the second amplifier can significantly enhance the sense of envelopment even with normal program material: Set the phase controls on the two amps 90 degrees apart, in what’s called "phase quadrature", thereby synthesizing the phase differentials one might experience in a large room. Credit to David Griesinger for this idea.

Obviously this phase-quadrature technique can be used with two conventional subs provided they have continuously-variable phase controls. I’d suggest locating the two subs along the left and right side walls.  

Duke

@northman: And therein lies the problem. While you may think poetry is beautiful, I may think it's just a bunch of rhymes that bore the crap out of me (which it does). So terms that mean different things to different people are not useful when trying to pin down objective answers. That's why those terms should be thrown out. My "musical" is that it reproduces exactly what an instrument sounds like. If someone is a Beats headphone user, their idea of musical might be something completely different.

A pair of Rel S510

@slimpikins5, thank you for all the great advice! I think the Model Ts might be a bit small for my space, and I'm not sure that 2000 watts is enough for my needs. I want my system to make a statement. And ... I am kidding... The room I'm setting up is tiny, 10' x 11', and I'm going with small stand-mounts for near-field listening. Still, maybe some day I could hear your set-up, which sounds incredible. I actually am in northern New England--outside of Burlington, VT. 

Also, I love how accessible the Bryston staff is. I've owned a lot of Bryston gear and I've emailed a few times with James Tanner as well as messaged with him on audiocircle. In fact, I just had an old amp spiffed up at the Bryston "repair center" near Montpelier. Forget a sterile office building; it's an old Victorian schoolhouse that's been converted to office space. It was fun seeing the amps and whatnot all over the place.

I like what you say about DSP. Needless to say, there are many opinions about all this!

@jssmith, it takes all kinds of universes, doesn't it? For me, the fact that terms have multiple meanings is hardly cause to throw them away; in fact, that's what makes them interesting (but not "subjective"). I like that "musical" can mean different things, and in fact that's the pleasure of art. That said, I was not only asking about "musical subwoofers" but also something that should have a clinical answer: at what point in the frequency range can most humans begin to discern notes, melody, tone, ... music? (Also, if you can identify poetry as "a bunch of rhymes" then you are in fact recognizing a genre, a type of expression with complexity and nuance, whether you like it or not.) I'll add that my son got a free pair of Beats when he bought some Apple product a few years ago; OMG, that woofy, vague bass is exactly what I don't want in a sub!