A deeper more holographic soundstage.


I was wondering by what means you have created a deeper soundstage. I am satisfied with the width but I really feel it is a bit 2 dimensional. It doesn't go back far enough. I like more layers of sound that reach towards you from the blackness.
As I've already spent quite a bit on my system I am unable to buy much more expensive components.
Did you upgrade one component that made the difference? Placement of speakers? New footers or tweaks such as Stillpoints?
Two subs instead of one(I have one)? Different placement of subs? I am working with a very tight space so it is difficult to move things without them being in the center of the room.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
roxy1927
So, while room treatment may help and equipment rack placement may help, you can get to this level of imaging without it.
Interesting... I believe you because all room are different and dont need the same level of treatment, and some Audio system are already synergetically and by itself already very high S.Q. then i belive you...

BUT it is not true for most of people at all....In most case acoustical treatment and controls are necessary....Beside that except for lucky buyers, most very good system cost high price...

My speakers paid 50 bucks are very good but not on the level of your ATC for example...

But guess what, my S.Q. is probably near you, i listen to a soundstage holographic with perfect imaging, natural timbre with audible decay,bass i feel in my stomach, and the sound is filling my entire room at low volume ...Then all situation are different...Thanks to my homemade embeddings device... Without that compared to your ATC probably my speakers are way under in S.Q. term...

We cannot deduce that all costly system will be good without the need of any embeddings controls at all and will not need specific acoustical controls nor electrical or mechanical controls either...The general rule for most small room and audio system is they probably badly need all treatment and all possible controls...

By the way  i apologize to say that downright but you probably dont know what your own system is able to do more with a complete implementation of mechanical,electrical and acoustical controls...Perhaps your system even if you are satisfied is not working, unbeknownst to you, at his better level possible...

Most people unsatisfied or not, are not conscious at all of what are the really true high potential level of their audio system, what it is able to give when working in optimal controlled conditions... This is the ONLY experience and certainty i have acquire at the end of my journey...I called that embeddings controls in the 3 dimension of audio....

Happy New Year...
I've heard two pieces of equipment that increase the depth of the soundstage - one I own and the other I heard at AXPONA.

A company called BSG Technologies made a processor called the QOL (pronounced coal). This unit is a refinement on phasing processors such as the Carver's Sonic Hologram Generator, which I also own. The QOL is more subtle than other processors of its type but its main benefit is that it deepens the soundstage. I use it over 90% of the time when I listen to music. It was well reviewed by TAS and Stereophile so you can find more information if you Google "BSG QOL review." Originally they cost $4k but you can occasionally find one on the used market for under a grand. I like mine so much I bought a spare from the guy who ran the company. 

The other one is the Synergistics Research Atmosphere Infinity. I heard this at the 2018 AXPONA where the company owner put on a really good demonstration. I didn't hear much difference when he added/removed the little HFT thingies but the soundstage absolutely collapsed when he shut off the Atmosphere Infinity unit. He had the system playing with all his tweaks before the demonstration and I remember thinking that this was the best sound at the show when I walked into the room. It really sounded like musicians were playing in the room. This skinny tower goes for about $3500 and if it does at home what I heard at AXPONA it's well worth it. I'm looking forward to auditioning one at a dealer when I get a chance..

Just for the record, I have a fairly optimum setup with a large (16 x 35) room. I'm running Thiel CS6 speakers which are several feet away from the front wall and carefully set up. My system sounds really good without any processing but the QOL adds the cream of increased depth. On a good recording I've had people sit there and gape in disbelief. It's very three dimensional.
More than anything it's the room.
I currently have an all tube setup (Don Sachs/Primaluna/Salk) and don't have nearly the soundstage I had in my old home.

Back then, I had a NOS Carver TFM35, a amp that has always been described as "nice upper end detail but lacking bass and having a 2D soundstage". In that room, with a humble Technics 1200mk2 and a AT7V cartridge, I got a deeper and wider soundstage.

I have much better equipment now...and there are some things that do sound better...no doubt.  But I am so curious to know what this system would sound like in my old room.

Here are a list of the things that I did that made the biggest difference from most effective to least effective:

1. I had a very good acoustical ceiling. Not the soft kind with asbestos...this was a 1950s concrete product. You would need to tear the ceiling to the beams to remove it. Acoustic ceilings get a bad rap...these things are golden for a good sounding room.

2. Nothing between the speakers but air. A year ago I would have put this at number 1 but I do believe the ceiling is more important now. I had the audio rack along the side wall...quite a bit away from the speakers. I was considering putting the rack on the other side of the wall in the bedroom and just having the speakers in the living room.  That would have been inconvenient but maybe completely remarkable! 

3. I followed the 1/5 rule: Tweeters 1/5 of room width from side walls. I could not follow the 1/5 from room depth for tweeters and listening position. Tweak from there.

4. Remove all reflective artwork from the walls.  Replace with wood carvings, framed tapestries etc.. Also try to mirror image the left and right walls as much as possible. My walls looked like a dense collage of artifacts.

5. A big, heavy Persian rug with heavy felt pad underneath. None of that non-slip netting stuff.
 






+1 sandthemall.

I am going to offend some people but I really question what their systems sound like no matter the superlatives. You have experienced yourself. There really is no substitute for acoustic treatment though advanced DSP like the BACHH may have some strong ability as noted with directional speakers.
More than anything it’s the room.
A balance between diffusion surface and volume, reflection and absorbtion is decisive... No room is similar even with the same form and the same number of doors and windows at the same place...

Why?

Because the acoustical properties of the furnitures and walls and ceilings and of the floor can be different between these 2 similar rooms...

Then even with same geometry and topology. the acoustical content that constitute the building room and furnitures will act dramatically...

In my room the soundstage and imaging and even timbre perception was increased greatly by the right balance between reflection, absorption and diffusion...

Just one tip to make you smile but it work: sound waves hate empty corner...

I replace 4 of my 5 ceiling corners with polyedral flowing shape...i use five cents materials... Results: increase in the perception particularlyof high frequencies and more refine sound all across the scale...My room was already heavily controls tough....it is just an example of what can work in a specific room...

In acoustic small change can made great improvement...