2. cables
  3. 156742-1458

Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

I have been an avid user of the Duelund cabling for over two years now and have used them exclusively in my system with great results. I have built many for friends and have used a full loom of interconnects, speaker cables, power cords and an extensive wiring modification for a previously owned balanced power conditioner utilizing Duelund 600V PolyCast wiring which was transformative. My cabling desires can be a little addictive as I have owned and evaluated 40+ brands of cabling costing more than an entire stereo system!

Over the past six months I stumbled upon a thread here on Audiogon in regards to a Helix designed cabling and as you probably already know, I just had to look a little deeper into this cable design…After a month of studying and sourcing parts, I decided to reach out to the designer/architect, Williewonka who gave more insights and philosophy on how the cable came into existence.

That conversation got the ball rolling in converting one of my KLE Duelund interconnects to Steve’s Helix designed which only entailed replacing the neutral with a Mil-Spec 16 AWG silver-plated copper wire with the neural wire being 3 times longer than the signal wire and of course the “Coiling” of the neutral wire : )

After the modification was complete, I was not sure what to expect from the Helix cabling but I was quite shocked with the results with “ZERO” burn-in time…The sound stage became much wider/deeper with a much tighter/focused image and clarity/transparency is like nothing I have ever heard in any cabling regardless of cost. In fact, I just sold a full loom of a commercially designed Helix Cable that’s renowned around the world and has more direct sale than any cable manufacturer; these $200 DIY Helix Cables walked all over them…

I believe you will hear the same results as I have and have heard back from friends who have already modified their Duelunds with the same results; WOW! Remember the cables will need 200+ hours to burn-in and settle into your system. My system is now 90% DIY Helix to include IC, SC, PC and Coax with each cabling adding its beauty of an organic and natural presentation that draws you into the fabric of the music.

You can tailor the sound of your cables using Duelund, Mundorf silver/1% gold, the outstanding Vh Audio OCC Solid Copper or Silver with Airlok Insulation or your favorite wiring and you can change it at any time…

 

http://www.image99.net/blog/files/category-diy-cables.html

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/difference-in-sound-between-copper-and-silver-digital-cables

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/adding-shielding-to-existing-cables

 

Enjoy,

Wig


128x128wig
divertiti
223 posts
 
@williewonka, it will be a balanced XLR connector
williewonka
3,071 posts
 
@divertiti - unfortunately this is definitely uncharted territory for me.

But since you are making a Helix XLR cable, would it be possible to try that cable as the AES EBU cable to see if it works?

Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to explore every possible use for the Helix Geometry.

I found this basic explanation of high frequency transmission problems online...
At high frequencies (people use to say RF for Radio Frequencies) all cables behave (or misbehave) as transmission lines.

Get a long pipe and talk into it, that’s a transmission line. If it is long enough, you’ll hear some echo coming back from the other end. That’s a problem.

Whenever you send some stuff in a transmission line it will always travel at a certain velocity (the speed of sound in the case of you talking in a pipe, the speed of light modulo impedance, dielectric constant etc, in a cable).

So, if your signal is fast enough, that this propagation effects are not negligible anymore, you’ll say it’s a transmission line, and you have to treat it like this. It is not something difficult, just a part of your design.

For instance take a SATA cable. If you send some low frequency signals in it, it’s a cable. If you send 3 billion bits per second in it, it’s a transmission line, since there are several bits in the cable at any given time. Of course you’ll want to minimize echoes if you wanna use that to transmit some useful information.

So if you put a resistor at the end of the cable, which has a certain value, you will get optimal damping and optimal transfer of power : all the power that flows in the transmission line will end up in the resistor instead of bouncing back to the source and messing everything. The value of this resistor is your characteristic transmission line impedance. It can be calculated (depending on geometry etc) or it can be measured.
I do know that a Helix Interconnect cable used for analogue purposes can also be used as a SPDIF cable without using a 75 Ohm RCA plug and it performs extremely well - i.e. better than most purpose built 75 Ohm cables.
- Perhaps it’s the Helix Geometry that overcomes some issue in a standard 75 Ohm cable

The Helix Geometry is very different from that of a "standard cable" - so does it suffer from the same reflection issues - or is the highest frequency it can handle without any issues, high enough to handle those supported by a 110 ohm AES EBU connection without any problems?

I would try it - What’s the worst that can happen? - it sounds bad?

But then again - it might not :-)

If you do try it, please post your observations. I like to understand the limitations of the Helix Geometry as well as its good points.

Sorry I could not be of more help - Steve


divertiti
223 posts
 
@williewonka Thanks to your post that sparked my curiosity, I tried my spare helix interconnect using Mundorf single run barewire in cotton and absolute harmony as Spidif cable between my streamer and DAC ($4.5k each), and it performed great. In fact I had some Nordost Valhalla 2 AES XLR cable on hand and I had both plugged in to switch back and forth on the inputs. I couldn't tell the difference after quick switching between the two input from the listening spot. 

I'm sold! Now the question is do you use double run for Spdif or keep it single run? Also is there an optimal length for spdif cables?
williewonka
3,071 posts
 
@divertiti - Thanks for verifying the Helix IC as a SPDIF - it’s been a while since I used SPDIF, so knowing it works with great components is very much appreciated.

WRT..

Now the question is do you use double run for Spdif or keep it single run?
Good question - I’ve been asked that question many times i.e. before the Double shotgun version was tried, and I always said "a single run"

But after the success of the Double Shotgun - perhaps two would work better?

But then again we are dealing with digital signal that represents 0’s and 1’s , which I believe is not as critical as analogue cables, so perhaps two wires is overkill - I would stick with one.

The other factor is my old SPDIF did not use the same solid copper or solid silver wire that are currently in use, so it was probably not as "capable" from an analogue perspective, but it still performed very nicely as a SPDIF interconnect.

@Grannyring is using a twisted pair for D+ and D- on his USB cable

Also is there an optimal length for spdif cables?
I assume you are asking about HELIX geometry SPDIF cables?

There probably is, but because the signal is not "reflecting" to the same extent as a cable having a more standard geometry I would "questimate" that it is probably quite long, much longer than I would care to wind a helix coil for. :-)

I have tried a 2 meter cable and could not tell any difference between it and a 1 meter cable.

My final SPDIF cable was a 1/2 meter long and I observed the same great results as with the 1 and 2 meter cables.

Hope that helps

Regards - Steve

.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,436 posts
 
Double is always better. Double on both positive and helix. It just is. Is it day and night better? No. Just a tad better and if you want the most out of your build, then go for it! If you are going through the work and effort, then make it the best you can with the conductors you have chosen.

I would not recommend using bare copper wire in cotton for the positive conductors. They will oxidize over time, no doubt about it. Silver or silver/gold is fine!  Food for thought.


More to discover