New to analog


I spent the last 6-8 months building a decent (at least to me) system that I enjoy quite a bit. I sold my CD player about a year ago and currently only relying on streaming. I was in the market for a nice CD player but figured why not give this analog thing a shot and see what all the fuss is about. So here we are :)

One thing to keep in mind is that while I might be a total noob when it comes to analog/vinyl, I've been dabbling in audio for almost 15 years and have gone through my fair share of system. So I have a good idea of what I like -- warmth over neutrality, but not overly lush. I like dynamics but not at the expense of timber and tonality. Mostly listen to jazz, vocals, classical, and classic rock. My system includes ...

Sonore opticalRendu streaming via Roon/Qobuz/Tidal
Luxman DA-06 DAC
Luxman 590AXII
Sonus Faber Olympica II

My goal in building an analog rig is to treat it as a journey instead of trying to get to the end game right away. I want to start with buying a turntable and use the phono stage in my Luxman. Just like other things in audio, I suspect there's a tipping point, in terms of dollars, below which you cannot appreciate what analog brings to the table. I know a few folks who bought fairly low end TTs and gave up claiming that vinyl is no better than CDs. I don't know if that really is the case, or they were playing below the tipping point. So the question is where does that point lie? I obviously don't want to start with SOTA turntables but also don't want to cheapen out so much that I'm not able to experience the magic if you will. So now on to some specific questions ...

1. Since I'm starting out, I want to buy used to maximize value and stay within the sweet spot (whatever that happens to be). Good idea? Or too risky given so many moving parts (literally) when it comes to turntables? Is $2500 a decent target for used and 'gentle' introduction? Feel free to suggest cheaper alternatives by all means. At this point, I want to set the bar to a max of $3000.

2. Which manufacturers/models to consider and which to stay away from? I don't want something that's too complex for a newbie. I know that I will be upgrading in the future so something with good resale value would be nice.

3. I've seen some TTs sold without cartridges. Given that I'm totally inexperienced I think I want to get something that includes everything except phono stage. Am I overthinking, or should I be open to buying separately?

4. Finally, feel free to share any obvious do's and don'ts that I should keep in mind.
128x128arafiq
@ arafiq
IMO,
I would not buy used. The Technics SL-1200 GR or SL-1210 GR with a high output Grado Sonata will give you an excellent set and forget setup for a total of $2300.00. Spend the rest on some nice vinyl.
Here you go!!
https://www.overtureav.com/turntables-a-accessories/turntables/technics/
Search Results for “grado” – Overture Ultimate Home Electronics‎ (overtureav.com)
I understand you will be buying records. Cost will vary from, say, $1 to, say, $100, speaking both used and new.
Judging by what you said and by the choice of your equipment, you should be happy with Nottingham turntables.
But then again, I always recommend them within certain price range.
Used table is a gamble to a degree, I bought used here on Audiogon and won.

There is no tipping point. Records are better, period. I’ve written a zillion times how shocked my wife and I both were when I dug my beat up old Technics out of the garage, hooked it up just to see, and heard music far more warm and inviting than my five times as expensive CDP. I’ve also done demo’s and the only ones who ever even hesitate to prefer records are audiophiles. Normal people who know nothing about anything except what they like always prefer records.

But I’m audiophile enough to know where the "tipping point" thing comes from. Digital does a really good job of fooling people into thinking its more detailed and dynamic. Most audiophiles think the only valid comparison is flipping rapidly back and forth between identical snippets of the same track. If that is all you do then the tipping point thing is understandable and easy to explain.

CD is really good at transients and leading edges. Its grainy and coarse, the opposite of liquid. But this grain is easily mistaken for detail. Only the really expensive top end digital starts to approach the naturally smooth liquid ease of vinyl. Records on the other hand, its easy to get a rig that sounds nice and full and warm, but very expensive to dig out all the wealth of rich inner detail (so much you can’t believe!) that lies buried in the grooves.

Because so much of what we hear is digital, and because everyone has been indoctrinated to the fantasy that digital is flat and neutral and perfect, it is by default what most think of as "good". Well if that is your standard, all that etched exaggerated detail, its going to take a pretty darn fine rig to get there. At that aspect of it, anyway. At warmth on the other hand, forget about it.

This is where the snippets come in. If you sit and relax and play side after side, after a while your brain loses touch with the crazy notion that etch is detail, vinyl sounds great, and its going back that is hard to take.

For a great example of this look at the comments on my system page.
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
I have no intention of adding a turntable no matter how good it sounds. While I was there I found myself wanting a dryer more clinical presentation but listening to my system just now there seems to be so much missing that was present in your system.

Classic example! Exactly what I’m talking about!

So my advice is, get whatever turntable/arm/cart you like but do not try and make it sound like digital! Enjoy the wonderful balance analog naturally loves to hit between detail and warmth. Do this and the further up the food chain you go the more of both you will get. Also realize that with records the turntable, arm, cartridge, and phono stage are all equal.

That does not mean spend the same amount on each. Although it could. What it means is if you get a nice rig like oldhvymec recommends, or heck any $3k rig for that matter, and run it through the phono card in your Luxman, expect to be shocked how much better it will be with a good quality stand alone phono stage.

You’re probably smart to start like you plan, using the Luxman. Avoid low output MC. Anything below about 0.5mV only makes the phono stage challenge harder. Get some nice medium output (.6-.8mV, something like that) and you will be in great shape should you want to upgrade your phono stage to something like the Decware ZP3 https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZP3.htm

That front end, on some Nobsound springs, or even better Townshend Pods, and with some quality wire, will shame just about any digital you can find at just about any price with mega-warmth, incredible detail, and emotional involvement no bits will ever be able to match.
Do take a drive into Dallas and see the guys at Audio Concepts. 
These guys know analog and they are a Luxman dealer so you will be able to at least hear different turntables on your rig.

Great folks and I have spent a ton of money there over the years.

With COVID you may need to set up an appointment.

Cheers.

Thorens, Technics, Nottingham, all sound like great suggestions. Keep 'em coming folks. I've also heard good things about VPI and Rega. I have been buying used equipment for a very long time with great success (knock on wood). But am I to assume that a used TT presents a greater risk compared to, say, amps or DACs? If so, then maybe new it is.

Also, what are the pros and cons of MM vs MC?

@oldhvymec -- man, you're right about the vinyl prices. I was looking at some well known recordings (Miles, Coltrane, Chet Baker, Patricia Barber, and other usual suspects) to get my collection going, but the good ones seem to be quite a bit more expensive than CDs.

@yogiboy Thanks for the links. This looks interesting and very much within the ballpark of my budget.

@inna The Nottingham looks really nice, but the link you provided is being shipped from Netherlands and does not include a cartridge. Not sure if there's a US dealer, but I'll definitely research.

Lots of food to munch on!