tube magic with digital source?

Yes.

I'm very convinced that part of the rise of SETs in the 1990s has to do with the dryness (back then) of digital. The two complement each other in a certain way. I wouldn't regard it as neutral by any means, but often an SET can calm down the presentation of a digital playback that otherwise has problems.

However in recent times digital has gotten to the point that inexpensive digital is available with excellent sound that would have been considered state of the art only 10-15 years ago. Topping makes a number of inexpensive DACs that work quite nicely with tubes. Because I couldn't find a lower powered tube amp that wasn't also compromised in some way, I wound up designing and building one myself. This amp makes 5 watts, but has wider bandwidth and lower distortion than SETs. Its also low noise. I built this amp for my bedroom system, which uses small, easy-to-drive loudspeakers. Its used exclusively with digital audio and the results are quite pleasing- it is very smooth and detailed.  I'm using a Topping E30 DAC, which cost about $125.00 on ebay including shipping. You might laugh but this DAC is cheap enough you might want to pick one up and see how it compares with more expensive DACs (I've done this). Its quite compact and recognizes a wide range of codices. 


The tube amp replaced a solid state amp of exactly the same size and power. The improvement in sound was easy to discern; the tube amp has more depth, better bass (measurably so as well) and simply sounds more realistic.

I mostly agree with miller on this. I have never been able to get emotionally connected with any digital source I have tried. From the outset, it simply isnt there. However I do enjoy digital more with my tubes than with S.S. but the improvement isnt as significant.

Thanks @millercarbon. So do I understand correctly that it is simply a waste of tubes if one only listens to digital sources?

No, and no idea how you got that from me. What I said is:

I think it far more likely that at this stage of the game we have not yet figured out the proper relevant measurements. When we do we will find it is solid state and digital that are by far the most distorted. 

In other words tubes are actually less distorted than SS.
And:

the goal of the system and every component in it is to do as little harm as possible. The goal is not to "sound good". It is not to "be magical". It is to do nothing. Components that do the least sound the best. 

So in other words putting them both together what I'm saying is tubes sound better because they distort or alter the original signal the least. 

So therefore, logically, digital will sound better with tubes. The tubes won't be wasted. Good audio never is wasted. Every tiny little thing we can do to preserve the integrity of the signal pays dividends in sound quality. Tubes do this better than solid state. That is what I'm saying. 

Remember, also said no one is buying this. Everyone is so brainwashed into SS being "neutral" and tubes being "colored" it seems Jumbo the flying elephant is easier to believe. Oh well. 

Jenifer Warnes is a great case in point, BTW.

She is. More than you know. Check this out:  

Famous Blue Raincoat is a supposedly all digital recording. It sounds better on vinyl than any digital medium. So there's one data point. Even better, in final mastering they made four different masters. Warnes, Cohen, and two others (I'm forgetting the names) listened to these four different master tapes. Three of them maintained the all-digital signal. The fourth was to analog tape. All four agreed the analog tape sounded better. 

What this shows, every tiny little step matters. Analog (tubes, records) sounds better, period. FBR sounds better on the analog master, and FBR sounds better on vinyl. Continue on down the line, it will sound better with tubes than solid state. Does not matter what lies upstream.  

This same logic applies to everything, by the way. Every single tiny little link in the chain is an opportunity to either maintain or degrade signal integrity. Nothing anywhere ever can make the signal better. All it can do is make it worse. Tubes sound good not because they make the signal sound good, but because they make the signal sound less bad than digital.

Sansui in the past take the time to take their best tube amplifier, one of the best in the world at this times, and create a S.S. amplifier that replicate it with his sound so perfectly that they compare the 2 side by side with no distinction between the 2...

This is one of the reason that i bought my Sansui of this era...

I really think that the varieties of tube amplifier and the varieties of S.S. amplifiers to compare with, coupled to the varieties of digital or analog sources, adding to that with the different possible embeddings controls, right or wrong, for all these possibilities of coupling, must preclude ANY definitive conclusion....

If i replace one day my Sansui with a tube amplifier(the Berning ZOTL) it will not at all because the sound is S.S..... Warm, detailed, tri dimensional etc it sound analog not digital at all for my ears, i even bought a second one....

Passion is also my personal quality and my main defect....😁

Then......

I will not condemn those who vouch for tubes, like those who vouch for turntable, never....

But S.S. is different from S.S. like no tubes sound like another tube amplifier....

It seems evident....

The most rewarding upgrade is not buying a new amp. or anything else, it is to install controls over the many dimensions where you system work....

This is my only certainty....After experiments.....

The only thing someone can affirm: "my actual tube amp sound better than all my past S.S. amp in this embeddings dimensions of my house".... Thats all....




Give me a S.S. amplifier of my choice, and another room and some time to work this out and i will beat him..... And vice versa if someone vouch for his S.S. amplifier....
Give me a ZOTL then and a house where i will control the embeddings and i will beat the opponent S.S. ...

The only exception will be very high end tube or S.S. unknown to me in a perfectly controlled opponent house that will beat my imperfect knowledge....😊


But even losing in this competition would never be able to erase my point about the importance of embeddings controls over almost any upgrade.... That is my opinion and limited experience...

Combining Analog and digital is the way.....For sure....

obviously tubes in audio gear existed prior to solid state amplification being invented and commercialized

with the advent of solid state amplification as well as the advent of cd’s as a format, the sound produced by high end audio systems went from warm and rolled off using tube gear (and lp’s or fm as the source), to very extended top to bottom but often with an added harshness and a thinned out /flattened midrange and midbass in solid state/cd driven systems

these two sound profiles are fundamentally synergistic - as the one school compensates for the weaknesses of the other, and if gear from both schools are combined intelligently in a system chain then you can get the best of both worlds

the ’tubes in dacs’ discussion is a microcosm of the above historical mega-shift in high end hifi audio over the past several decades

it works, but as always, it depends on skill in implementation, knowledge of what works with what, and of course, the type/flavor of sound one is aiming for in their system