2. cables
  3. 156742-1458

Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

I have been an avid user of the Duelund cabling for over two years now and have used them exclusively in my system with great results. I have built many for friends and have used a full loom of interconnects, speaker cables, power cords and an extensive wiring modification for a previously owned balanced power conditioner utilizing Duelund 600V PolyCast wiring which was transformative. My cabling desires can be a little addictive as I have owned and evaluated 40+ brands of cabling costing more than an entire stereo system!

Over the past six months I stumbled upon a thread here on Audiogon in regards to a Helix designed cabling and as you probably already know, I just had to look a little deeper into this cable design…After a month of studying and sourcing parts, I decided to reach out to the designer/architect, Williewonka who gave more insights and philosophy on how the cable came into existence.

That conversation got the ball rolling in converting one of my KLE Duelund interconnects to Steve’s Helix designed which only entailed replacing the neutral with a Mil-Spec 16 AWG silver-plated copper wire with the neural wire being 3 times longer than the signal wire and of course the “Coiling” of the neutral wire : )

After the modification was complete, I was not sure what to expect from the Helix cabling but I was quite shocked with the results with “ZERO” burn-in time…The sound stage became much wider/deeper with a much tighter/focused image and clarity/transparency is like nothing I have ever heard in any cabling regardless of cost. In fact, I just sold a full loom of a commercially designed Helix Cable that’s renowned around the world and has more direct sale than any cable manufacturer; these $200 DIY Helix Cables walked all over them…

I believe you will hear the same results as I have and have heard back from friends who have already modified their Duelunds with the same results; WOW! Remember the cables will need 200+ hours to burn-in and settle into your system. My system is now 90% DIY Helix to include IC, SC, PC and Coax with each cabling adding its beauty of an organic and natural presentation that draws you into the fabric of the music.

You can tailor the sound of your cables using Duelund, Mundorf silver/1% gold, the outstanding Vh Audio OCC Solid Copper or Silver with Airlok Insulation or your favorite wiring and you can change it at any time…

 

http://www.image99.net/blog/files/category-diy-cables.html

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/difference-in-sound-between-copper-and-silver-digital-cables

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/adding-shielding-to-existing-cables

 

Enjoy,

Wig


128x128wig
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,505 posts
 
If you feel you want to coat the naked wire, then use a Sprayon product called red insulating varnish. This is what is used to spray transformer windings to prevent shorts. It is electrical grade.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M0RQC27/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I think it would most likely degrade the sound vs nude. How much? If at all? No need with silver as oxidation that deteriorates sound quality is not an issue with silver. I know some folks will argue oxidation and sound degradation happens with pure silver, but have owned and built many pure silver cables, I have yet to hear or see any deterioration after almost 15 years! My home is always temperature controlled and maintains a humidity level under 40 however.

 This spray is for those who are concerned about copper. Jupiter and other companies make copper in cotton conductors and I have used these for years without any sound or serious oxidation problems. However, on paper it can sure happen. 

twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
Which leads us back full circle to the Duelund tinned copper in cotton.

Is the red stuff a DIY version of what Anti-Cables does?
debjit_g
280 posts
 
so I am very interested to build a pair of 8ft speaker cables. Currently using Duelund DCA 12GA.

Has anyone done a full Duelund Helix configuration ? Can someone (grannyring or Steve) summarise what is the latest wires to use for the positive and neutral wires ?

williewonka
3,075 posts
 
@debjit_g - I tried a full Duelund Signal and Duelund neutral interconnect probablby last year and it was identical to the same cable with the Mil-spec neutral.

Others in Europe have tried some very good wires for the Neutral on speaker and interconnects and found it made no difference, hence why I still recommend the Mil-Spec for the neutral

As for the signal/live wire - my pref’s in descending order (for all cables)
  1. Neotech Solid UP-OCC copper (Naked)
  2. VH Audio Solid UP-OCC copper (Naked) no difference from #1
  3. Neotech solid UP-OCC copper (Teflon)
  4. VH Audio Solid UP-OCC copper (AirLok)
  5. Mundorf solid silver/gold (in cotton sleeve)
  6. Duelund stranded tinned copper in cotton/oil (interconnect and speaker cables only)
  7. Duelund stranded tinned copper in Polycast insulation for live wire in power cables
The gauge and umber of wires used are as follows
  • for IC’s 2 x 18 gauge for Neotech, VH Audio, Mundorf and Duelund was 1 x 18 gauge cotton oil
  • For speaker cables using Neotech 1 x 14 gauge
  • For speaker cables using VH Audio, 2 x 18 gauge
  • For speaker cables using Duelund, 1 x 16 and 1 x 12 gauge
  • For power cables with Neotech 1 x 12 gauge
  • For power cables with VH Audio 4 x 18 gauge
  • For power cables with Duelund 1 x 12 gauge with Polycast insulation

What difference are there between these wires?
  • all are very good wires to use for the signal wires but as you apporach my #1 - the image gets bigger and more focussed, the dynamics are faster and the clarity and details improve.
  • Duelund is not as fast as the UP-OCC copper or the silver, so dynamics are a little slower, but that translates to being less aggressive and more "laid back", so it really depends on the ears of the listener and the music they listen too
  • Also, my system is all solid state, so there would very likely be a slight change in my order if I were to hear the wires on an all tube system.
  • But I stress these are MY PREFERENCES on MY SYSTEM in MY LISTENING SPACE.
The one thing I have come to appreciate about the Helix Deign is that it is very easy to change the signal wires, so you could start with Duelund and easily move to something else later

I would probably skip the Mundorf Solid Silver/gold because the VH Audio Solid Copper wire with the AirLok insulation was better and costs less

I have not included the VH Audio Solid Silver wire because on my system, the Solid Copper was almost as good as the Mundorf at 1/5th the price, but I know others have tried it and love the results on their system

Perhaps @wig and @grannyring - or anyone else - can provide their comments - because different opinions makes for a more informed choice.

BTW - My musical taste is pretty much anything that sounds amazing, so I have lots to choose from, but I can appreciate some genres might sound better with a more "relaxed sounding" wire.

Hope that helps Steve

grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,505 posts
 
@twoleftears. I have made and sold cables with the Duelund stranded and tinned copper wire in oil impregnated copper for years. I have built ICs, USBs, speaker cables, DC cables, jumpers etc... and I like that conductor. The Helix is just heads and heals better with either the VH Audio or Neotech copper wire with the Teflon insulation in place.

We are now talking about squeezing out even more performance from the very best many of us have ever heard or built. Don’t misunderstand the point of our latest posts.  The double helix design as outgunned cables selling for up to $13,000! This is reality. Yes, these are that good. As much as I loved my Acoustic BBQ Double Smoked Duelund cables I have to admit these helix designs surpass them in every sonic attribute important to us Aphiles.
More to discover